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Old 03-01-2016, 10:15 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Davy_Baby9 View Post
Bottom line is you shouldn't have to get a "track pack" on a car advertised as the most track capable mustang ever. Especially when you can only pick 1 of 3 all lumped into one package. I thought about the base GT350 as an option, but not so sure anymore.

I think Ford really botched this one up from the start. Coolers should have been standard on all models, and options should have been more selective instead of forcing people to pick one or the other. You think that if Ford came out and said you need the track pack to last longer than 15 mins on any given track, 72% of the buyers would still pick the tech pack?
The ONLY GT350 advertised as the "most track-capable Mustang" is the GT350R. You're trying to apply that tag-line to all GT350's, regardless of the trim level.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:15 AM   #100
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The trouble with Ford is they don't have enough of the hard core racing engineers like GM does. Too much R&D is done with their customers. The old SVT marketing team has been blended with the Europe team. Marketing group really screwed up on this option category thing. GM has Corvette , Cadillac and Camaro with all sharing R&D work. We haven't seen all the great stuff coming down the road yet from GM. Ford also relies a lot on outside engineering firms like Multimatic in Canada. They have their own agenda and its not just Ford.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:19 AM   #101
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Has Ford changed their tune regarding honoring the warranty if the car is used on the track and something goes wrong?
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:26 AM   #102
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Has Ford changed their tune regarding honoring the warranty if the car is used on the track and something goes wrong?

I think their stance is still that you can do "time trials" aka HPDE's, track days, etc...but you can't enter into timed competitive events like SCCA campaign events similar to what you would see in SpecMiata/SpecMustang.

Like with drag racing...test-n-tunes, time trials...you're good. The minute you roll up to the line with eliminations/money at stake..you're done.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:58 AM   #103
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I think the Base and Tech Pack GT350 owners have a legitimate beef. From what I read so far, it looks like these things are going into limp noodle mode before the tires are heated up. In fact, one guy said that he and two other GT350's had to pull off the track while they were still doing the follow the leader part of their HPDE (where everyone follows a lead car slowly to get the feel for the track before they cut you loose). AND, there were several Mustang GT's out there all day. If you buy a car purpose built for the track, even in it's most base form, it must be able to make it past the intro to the track part of the event. It is not like these guys were actually racing them on the road course.

Not to mention, it is the transmission that is heating up (at least that is the info right now), and it is a MANUAL transmission (auto is not available). How in the world is the manual trans heating up so hot when they are not even pushing the car anywhere near it's potential? I can see the automatic heating up, but the manual? Some GT350 guys are speculating that the cats are too close to the trans. This sounds like a major flaw in a track focused car to me.

On top of that, Ford didn't allow folks to choose BOTH the Track and Tech Packs together. You had to choose one or the other. So, I can see how a lot of guys thought "I will only take it to the track a couple of times a year, and I won't race, just an HPDE once in a while. Plus, I want the tech goodies. I will just get the tech pack."

Also, for '17, all GT350's come with the coolers necessary for track use. Sounds like they fixed the issue going forward, but what about the 15/16 base and tech pack cars (which looks like about 2/3 of the cars made)? For should make things right for those cars immediately.

I am willing to guess that most every car in Ford's lineup could do an HPDE without going into limp noodle mode, EXCEPT the Base and Tech Pack GT350's (the most track focused Mustang in history as marketed by Ford). All the other Mustangs can for sure.

Ouch!
Agree. And ouch unfortunately for the 3 at PBIR last Thurs night... I feel bad because they're all in the Novice group, and the track was crowded so freight train effect... and then they each had to pit in after 15-20mins (roughly 6 laps or so)... PBIR is not a long course like Sebring. I'd be pissed too...

There were 4 of us total with GT350's but I have the Track pack. I don't run in their Novice group since I run in the other group (Intermed/Advance). I took out both of the Tech pack guys with me each for a quick 10mins or so session so they can experience the course at a much faster pace... one was all new to hpde's and he still hit limp mode in 3 out of his 4 sessions.

Anyway this was during my 3rd session that night and here was one of the runs with the second guy. We had fun and since I had a passenger I was driving 8/10ths to be safe... I know the PBIR course quite well. At the end of the vid, you can hear him complain about not going out anymore since he hit limp mode in his. I Hope Ford makes it right for all the Tech/base car owners...

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Old 03-01-2016, 12:53 PM   #104
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Agree. And ouch unfortunately for the 3 at PBIR last Thurs night... I feel bad because they're all in the Novice group, and the track was crowded so freight train effect... and then they each had to pit in after 15-20mins (roughly 6 laps or so)... PBIR is not a long course like Sebring. I'd be pissed too...

There were 4 of us total with GT350's but I have the Track pack. I don't run in their Novice group since I run in the other group (Intermed/Advance). I took out both of the Tech pack guys with me each for a quick 10mins or so session so they can experience the course at a much faster pace... one was all new to hpde's and he still hit limp mode in 3 out of his 4 sessions.

Anyway this was during my 3rd session that night and here was one of the runs with the second guy. We had fun and since I had a passenger I was driving 8/10ths to be safe... I know the PBIR course quite well. At the end of the vid, you can hear him complain about not going out anymore since he hit limp mode in his. I Hope Ford makes it right for all the Tech/base car owners...

Great video!!! The car sounds awesome! I would love to hear that in person (I haven't yet). So what are your initial reactions to the car as a whole? How do you like the engine? How do you like the rest of the performance like handling, traction, brakes, transitions, etc... How does it compare to some of your other cars and other experiences?

But yes, I agree, it sucks for the base and Tech pack guys, but the issue now, is how well does Ford handle this. There are going to be some risks with being a first adaptor of a brand new design, but it's how the company stands behind it's customers that is most important in that situation.
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:32 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001 View Post
Great video!!! The car sounds awesome! I would love to hear that in person (I haven't yet). So what are your initial reactions to the car as a whole? How do you like the engine? How do you like the rest of the performance like handling, traction, brakes, transitions, etc... How does it compare to some of your other cars and other experiences?

But yes, I agree, it sucks for the base and Tech pack guys, but the issue now, is how well does Ford handle this. There are going to be some risks with being a first adaptor of a brand new design, but it's how the company stands behind it's customers that is most important in that situation.
Agree. Too many here, and on that other site, act as if Ford will take no action. The fact remains that before they do anything, they need to know the specifics about what is going on. That's not something that can be done in just a couple of weeks.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:38 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001 View Post
Great video!!! The car sounds awesome! I would love to hear that in person (I haven't yet). So what are your initial reactions to the car as a whole? How do you like the engine? How do you like the rest of the performance like handling, traction, brakes, transitions, etc... How does it compare to some of your other cars and other experiences?

But yes, I agree, it sucks for the base and Tech pack guys, but the issue now, is how well does Ford handle this. There are going to be some risks with being a first adaptor of a brand new design, but it's how the company stands behind it's customers that is most important in that situation.
Got to hear one in anger this past weekend. Really sounds great. The one I saw was a track pack so no limp mode issues. The GT350 is a really sweet car.
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:14 PM   #107
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Good point and the 2SS should keep me happy for some time. Most people haven't driven the SS yet to realize it's a hot ticket. Right there with the 16 Z51 and looks to match.
Ford wasn't smart because only 9% of cars were base models. They pissed off a lot of buyers with the two options pick one only. You can't have a track car with tech options.
As a side note I had a base 350 ordered @ MSRP and once I saw the 4.3 and 12.4 acceleration #'s I cancelled and got my $1000 back. Just not what I was expecting and ford never released any #'s either. Now I'm glad I don't have one and all the vibration that goes with this hyped up motor.
I'm more than happy with my 2SS. That may seem like an understatement to some people, but I truly like my 2SS a lot, true statement.
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:43 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001 View Post
Great video!!! The car sounds awesome! I would love to hear that in person (I haven't yet). So what are your initial reactions to the car as a whole? How do you like the engine? How do you like the rest of the performance like handling, traction, brakes, transitions, etc... How does it compare to some of your other cars and other experiences?

But yes, I agree, it sucks for the base and Tech pack guys, but the issue now, is how well does Ford handle this. There are going to be some risks with being a first adaptor of a brand new design, but it's how the company stands behind it's customers that is most important in that situation.
Yeah it sounds great! My Z06 is clearly faster/quicker but this GT350 sounds absolutely insane and exotic-like... and honestly it's a bit more fun to drive since it's more raw. It puts the power down well and the turn-in is really good. It feels lighter than it is... I'm amazed but on that note it's still not GT3/GT4 like in terms of balance or even C7-like.. it's close though. I haven't driven the new SS or 1LE yet but I did own a Z51 Stingray and currently the Z06 so I'll compare it to that. I also owned a 5th gen Camaro SS (45th anniv L99) since new but it's unfair to even bring that into the picture. That's like Curry vs. a normal Joe on the court...

First big difference is it's still a tall heavy car but as a whole I give the GT350 an A- grade performance-wise which I'll explain later... and then a B+ grade for the rest that's not power-related due to the lack of features/amenities when compared to what GM gives you because in terms of technology, the C7 and 6th gen Camaros are almost similar now. The best feature is the PDR hands down especially once you analyze your track metrics via Cosworth Toolbox and then also the PTM modes and better DIC/Infotainment features. The Shelby lacks that but what's a cool and useful feature is the configurable head-up display shift lights. Love it... better than GM's shift lights in the HUD.

And the new Recaros are great... I wish I could put them in my C7. One thing I really like in the GT350 is I can toggle-on the MagRide setting to Normal while in other high-performance driving modes (such as Sport, Track, or Drag) but in the C7 you cannot do that. If you want to be in Normal damping, you have to be in the non-Sport or non-Track modes in the C7. In the GT350's MagRide configurable options, you can change nearly any of the modes à la carte. It may be minor to some but IMO that's better versatility when you're not on the track. I can be in Sport driving mode but Normal damping... no can do on the C7.

The only drawback powerwise on the GT350 albeit minor is you have to keep it in the sweet rpm spot (basically 4k or higher) for you to see powerful pull. The LT1/LT4 torque has the advantage here but the Voodoo revs to the moon so the top end is very strong. Two different engine characters anyway. That's why for me I graded it as an A- because I have been so used to the LT4 torque. The bigger limiting factor at least for my skill level is I need stickier tires! The stock MPSS grips well but I can't push it faster or harder into and out of corners like I can with my Z06 which has Cup 2's. Tires with more grip will transform the balance to R-like and delete the slight understeer the GT350 has. That's my next step... very light wheels with either R-comps or scrubs.

As for braking, absolutely zero complaints. The best non-CCB brakes period. Yes, even just as good or better than the Z06's. It's very strong when needed and it's consistent and also has a direct linear modulation... so it's accurate and spot on all the time. No fade, no nothing... no mush, no gray area.

E-diff on the C7 is better in terms of taking over to keep you "on the race line" but the Torsen in the Shelby is still pretty good. You just have to hone your skills on turn-ins and exits and both diffs puts power down well anyway. That's probably why I enjoy it more because it is more raw and requires more skill to step up in increments. Basically it's easier to go from 7/10ths to 8/10ths in the C7 than it is in the Shelby. For example at Sebring as well as other tracks, I have to drive the GT350 more different than how I drive the C7 lap per lap. I actually am getting to like it because it's forcing me to develop raw hpde skills more. The e-diff and PTM is akin to Cliff Notes if I can use that analogy.

Basically the C7 can make any driver look fast since the transparent tech greatly helps, but the GT350 requires you to really harness and put into play your skills on the track... I guess this is also why so many Porsche GT3 guys like it as well. Every track venue I have been to... every experienced Porsche track rat wants one or has one on order already. Go to Rennlist and you'll see...

Anyway I hope this helps... they did a good job with this GT350. I'm sure the new 1LE as well as future ZL1 or Z/28 that may/will come out is going to even the playing field or step it up so to speak but so far I'm happy with the GT350 Track Pack. I'd love to have an R but the ADM's are crazy... I'll keep trying though. And I do wish I can track a 1LE for kicks and feedback... it's a closer apples-to-apples comparison instead of comparing with my Z06. I lap the Z06 at least 3 secs faster at PBIR but that's a given considering 2 totally different cars.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:04 PM   #109
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I have to disagree about the Recaro seats. They were much tighter then my 13 Boss 302 . I'm not a fan of the raspy sounding 350. I heard the 350R @ Daytona Rolex and I still like the sound of the Boss 302R better.....its got that V/8 higher sounding pitch. Magic ....but not as good as that Chevy V/8 in those DP corvette mid engine cars. You should hear that thing rumble in the pits. Awesome. See I'm used to a 502 bid block Camaro with that bad ass chop rumble. Much like the corvette DP cars.
Stingray I've seen your 350 videos and to be honest You are not pushing that car very hard . Take a look @ the ZO6 YouTube driven @ Road Atlanta. If you drove your car that hard you might experience high temp readings. Some of those cars on the track look like a parade lap. That Porsche flew by you. One of your passengers didn't know he didn't have coolers in his tech car.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:10 PM   #110
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Race engines always are intoxicatingly beautiful. I love the sound of old race prepared 302's and 289's screaming at 8,500 RPM in the Vintage SCCA series
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:50 PM   #111
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Thanks for sharing Stingray. You're living a dream!
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:03 PM   #112
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The ONLY GT350 advertised as the "most track-capable Mustang" is the GT350R. You're trying to apply that tag-line to all GT350's, regardless of the trim level.
So what are they then? Grocery getters? The whole GT350 description still on Ford's website list features of why the GT350 is the best mustang ever produced for the track car. Maybe they should use a giant asterisk?

Quote:
The GT350 is a specifically engineered machine, where the components work dynamically together as one and perform to a world-class level on all fronts, as well as meeting Ford durability standards. It’s all due to the focus of the Ford Performance Engineers to make a car that delivers thrills like this, yet still possess everyday driveability. Quite simply, the GT350 was engineered so you will say – from the race track to winding back roads, the GT350 can do it all.
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/fea...#page=Feature4
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