[Kmeleon]

Had my first spin last week after about 3 years.of track days. NJMP Lightning, turn 7.....cold track, cold tires, lap 2 and PTM Race.... Learned a valuable lesson.

https://youtu.be/BcqQK8P8zTI?feature=shared

[N Camarolina]

You finished the spin really close to the wall! Glad you were OK.

In addition to throttle application on corner exit with cold tires, I think there's another lesson or two in this from watching your video if I could suggest:

1) Keep your hands at 9 and 3 if you can, not bunched together. This will give you more flexibility should you need to counter steer.

2) You reacted a little bit slowly to the oversteer event and (given the yaw rate that had developed by the time you started to counter-steer) did not apply enough counter-steer to arrest the rotation. Part of the reason for this was you ran out of arm movement because your hands were together instead of opposite sides of the wheel.

I experienced my first serious oversteer event as a surprise at 90mph with (not unlike you) at least 1 tire barrier not far away. I wasn't completely successful in my attempt to catch and then "recover" to normal wheel position, and decided that I needed to get some wet skidpad practice so I'd be better prepared the next time. I'd suggest you do the same.

Good luck to ya!

[db2022cs]

Glad you and the car are fine! Definitely some lessons to be learned and luckily they weren't expensive besides maybe a new pair of underwear. As stated above, having good control over the steering wheel will help you with any corrections needed in the event of an oversteer. Love seeing the 1LE out on the track!

[RamAir02]

I had a similar spin at Lightning, outlap, cold tires!

[Xyebo]

Who had the audacity to honk the horn at the racing circuit?

[Kmeleon]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

You finished the spin really close to the wall! Glad you were OK.

In addition to throttle application on corner exit with cold tires, I think there's another lesson or two in this from watching your video if I could suggest:

1) Keep your hands at 9 and 3 if you can, not bunched together. This will give you more flexibility should you need to counter steer.

2) You reacted a little bit slowly to the oversteer event and (given the yaw rate that had developed by the time you started to counter-steer) did not apply enough counter-steer to arrest the rotation. Part of the reason for this was you ran out of arm movement because your hands were together instead of opposite sides of the wheel.

I experienced my first serious oversteer event as a surprise at 90mph with (not unlike you) at least 1 tire barrier not far away. I wasn't completely successful in my attempt to catch and then "recover" to normal wheel position, and decided that I needed to get some wet skidpad practice so I'd be better prepared the next time. I'd suggest you do the same.

Good luck to ya!

Agreed on the hand position, unfortunately I've found that on l harder left handers I've been using this grip to help hold me in the seat. That should all change come next year when I switch to a Schroth Rallye 3 harness.

As for the slow reaction, that was sort of on purpose because I remember thinking about the C7 pushing me hard and I was afraid if I overcorrected I'd "tankslap" back across the track and get plowed by him. Hindsight 20/20 I'm glad with the decision but it almost ended poorly. I'm actually surprised at my reaction because normally I would've just wheeled it to try and catch it.

[Kmeleon]

Originally Posted by RamAir02

I had a similar spin at Lightning, outlap, cold tires!

Wow that got away from you quick!


Yeah lesson learned! Should've taken another lap before getting after it.

[Kmeleon]

Originally Posted by Xyebo

Who had the audacity to honk the horn at the racing circuit?

I remember laughing when I heard it real time I've never once thought about honking when someone lost it in front of me

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Kmeleon

As for the slow reaction, that was sort of on purpose because I remember thinking about the C7 pushing me hard and I was afraid if I overcorrected I'd "tankslap" back across the track and get plowed by him. Hindsight 20/20 I'm glad with the decision but it almost ended poorly. I'm actually surprised at my reaction because normally I would've just wheeled it to try and catch it.

The faster you can react to oversteer, the LESS counter-steer it will take to neutralize it. Tank slap overcorrection can be caused by too much counter-steer as I think you've implied and were concerned about, but it can also be caused by not immediately returning the steering wheel position "normal" after you've used counter-steer to stop the rotation.

These skills are things you need to be competent in if you are going to drive in such a manner that oversteer is a real possibility. And that's why learning on a skidpad can be so valuable. You get to practice catch, pause, recovery (CPR) from oversteer situations and you start to develop a feel for how much counter-steer is required.

The best way you can be prepared for oversteer is both knowing the mechanics of what to do it if happens (see above), AND having an exit plan for which side is best to run off the track (in each particular corner) if you can't keep it on the asphalt in order to minimize likelihood of hitting a barrier. Staying out of the way of the guy who is following you would be a distant 2nd or 3rd priority, as that guy should have the skills to slow his car enough to avoid you. You just need to be predictable.

[Christian1LE]

I don't think it was cold tires, it looks like you got off the brakes too fast and then you stabbed the throttle a bit too much, little slow on the correction too. The weight transfer was too abrupt along with some sand/dirt on track.

I personally find that the tires are pretty cold for the first maybe 4-5 turns then there is decent grip. Agree with N Camarolina that it would benefit you to go to a skid pad so you feel more comfortable counter steering. Having said that you did the right thing for you, when all else fails 2 feet in.

[correcaminos]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

... and decided that I needed to get some wet skidpad practice so I'd be better prepared the next time. I'd suggest you do the same.
Good luck to ya!

So, how do you go about getting some time on a wet skidpad?

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by correcaminos

So, how do you go about getting some time on a wet skidpad?

Many tracks have a skidpad facility on the premises, and often (but not always) they have the ability to add moving water to increase the slip factor. Wet is considerably better than dry, as it both reduces tire wear and makes it easier to get the back end to step out (at lower speeds).

To access the skidpad, you might be able to rent it yourself, but I'd suspect that the cost might be prohibitive. HPDE and other organizations that focus on "car control" training will sometimes rent-out the skidpad as part of the event offering. When the BMWCCA group does this at VIR, they rent out the skidpad on Friday and have track HPDE on Saturday and Sunday. The skidpad itself is a $65 option to add when you are taking part in the $550 HPDE weekend event. I would suggest you call the tracks that are convenient for you to drive to and ask if they have a wet skidpad and what organizations in the coming months are planning on using it. Then contact those organizations to see about joining their event.

The usual approach is having a couple of rotating, in-car instructors handy to give you tips on managing car balance as you go through practicing understeer and oversteer. I liked it so much I've done it on 3 separate occasions and used the 2nd and 3rd to focus soley on oversteer.

If you have more than one wheelset, use the tires that have the worse wet traction. Slippery is your friend in this case.

[RoaringV8]

I almost lost it in the same turn at NJMP Lightning the first track day driving my 6th gen SS 1LE there. I've run many days at the track prior in my 5th gen SS 1LE and you've got to be careful getting on the throttle too quick with too much steering input in that turn especially if you turn in too early. Happy to see you didn't hit anything.

[correcaminos]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

...
To access the skidpad, you might be able to rent it yourself, but I'd suspect that the cost might be prohibitive. HPDE and other organizations that focus on "car control" training will sometimes rent-out the skidpad as part of the event offering. When the BMWCCA group does this at VIR, they rent out the skidpad on Friday and have track HPDE on Saturday and Sunday. The skidpad itself is a $65 option to add when you are taking part in the $550 HPDE weekend event. I would suggest you call the tracks that are convenient for you to drive to and ask if they have a wet skidpad and what organizations in the coming months are planning on using it. Then contact those organizations to see about joining their event.
...

Thank you! I'll check.