[N Camarolina]

Yes. The PDR data says the computer only blipped the RPM to 5400, though at that moment the speed was about 60mph, which in 1st gear (with the clutch out) would have resulted in RPM of approx 7000.

I don't even think I fully moved the shift lever into 1st before pulling back to neutral (the computer blips the throttle as soon as the lever clears the neutral area and begins to go into the gate for a particular gear).

[m6-lt1]

Gotcha. I’m aware of how it works. What i wasn’t sure of is if it will blip the throttle to the “correct” rpm if you put the car in an overrev situation (like yours). Good to know that it won’t blip it past red line. One time I was downshifting from 5th to 4th. I didn’t place the leaver in any gear but I must have pushed slightly too hard to the left as it thought I was going to second and blipped the throttle to around 6300-6600 hundred. I was going 77 mph so it would have been the very top of second. It was really loud and startled me for a second. I never actually put it in gear so I let go of the clutch.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Gotcha. I’m aware of how it works. What i wasn’t sure of is if it will blip the throttle to the “correct” rpm if you put the car in an overrev situation (like yours). Good to know that it won’t blip it past red line. One time I was downshifting from 5th to 4th. I didn’t place the leaver in any gear but I must have pushed slightly too hard to the left as it thought I was going to second and blipped the throttle to around 6300-6600 hundred. I was going 77 mph so it would have been the very top of second. It was really loud and startled me for a second. I never actually put it in gear so I let go of the clutch.

Sounds like we both had a similar experience. If I hadn't seen the PDR data, I would have guessed based on the tone of the auto blip that the engine was right up near the red-line (rather than the low 4000s that I was expecting from a shift to 3rd). The startle is what caused me to pause the shift lever and clutch movements.

[kropscamaro16]

ive had the same happen but 5th to 3rd and it was while i was doing hard braking so i had to hurry up and figured it out lol almost went off the track

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I still can't understand your logic here as to why 5th to 4th to 3rd lowers the risk of over-rev.

If you shift from 5th (upper gates) to 4th (lower row of gates), with a down-left-down movement, you face the risk of accidently shifting to 2nd (lower row of gates). I don't think that's any different than going from 5th to 3rd (down-left-up), where you risk shifting into 1st. Either way, the consequence of missing the intended gear and winding up 1 more column gate to left will result in over-revving the engine given the car's speed at the moment you are attempting the downshift (100+ attempting to go 4th and accidently grabbing 2nd; 60+ attempting to go to 3rd and accidently grabbing 1st).

Is there a reason to believe that a down-left-down movement from 5th is more likely to land in the intended gate than a down-left-up movement?

So few things:
1) Yes, there is still risk of going 5-2 instead of 5-4, but that's still better than going into 1st. 2nd is rather tall in our cars, so less risk of catastrophic damage.
2) Assuming you landed in 4th as intended, going into 3rd is a simple flick up, so a LOT less risk of accidentally going into 1st
3) Since you have auto blip, your downshifts can be lightning fast, and it perfectly matches revs for you, so why not use it?
4) You don't typically skip gears on acceleration, so why do it during deceleration

[Nick S]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Give this a quick read. Ross Bentley on Speed Secrets answering a question about whether it's better to skip gears on downshifting or run through them sequentially.
https://speedsecrets.com/should-i-sk...-downshifting/

You might be surprised by the answer (if you ignore the sidebar issue of heel-toe that also gets commentary). And yes, he's a pro.

In his answer, Ross makes it sound like skipping on downshifting can be an additional challenge because of the timing and trying to match revs. I guess I'm "cheating" by using the auto rev match, but I can live with that as it does it better than I could do, with less wear on the drivetrain parts.

I have also been told by the professional instructors at Bondurant when it was still Bondurant Racing School (Now called Radford Racing School) that it is perfectly ok to skip gears when downshifting. In fact when I rode along with my instructor he did exactly this in one of the corner entries. He would downshift from 4th into 2nd.

So I agree with you that this is not wrong for you to skip gears when downshifting.

In fact when I have driven at Road America and coming from turn 3 to turn 5 in my 5th Gen 1LE (no auto revmatch option), I would often times shift from 5th to 3rd as well. When you have to heal/toe rev match, everytime you perform the heal/toe you also run the risk of changing your brake pressure which can also upset the car. So making one pre-planned downshift and being able to concentrate on threshold braking while entering a downhill turn 5 at Road America from a speed of 140 mph down to 50 mph, I'll take the one downshift plan.

I'd not worry about what some others have to say. It's their choice on how they downshift and it's your choice on how you downshift.

Start a left foot braking debate once and see where that goes!

[Kmeleon]

The simple answer is if you put proper pressure on the shifter you will not hit the wrong gear when shifting. As many have said trying to go 5th to 3rd is not a "regular" shift and on the track when dealing with threshold braking and g forces it complicates the shift. Your point about possibly going 5th to 2nd means you're not holding the shifter properly,let the centering spring do the side to side work and just pull down. You'll never go 5th to 2nd if you use the correct pressure.

2nd to 3rd with NLS is the most difficult to pull off. This is where you need to be extremely careful.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Ryfly05

This maximizes engine braking, slows you down faster and/or can save your brakes a small amount.

At the level of us poor schmucks doing trackdays and hpde's does it really matter? Probably not, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do it the "proper" way anyways.

The tires are the limit of how fast you can slow down on stock brake pads and stock tires. If you are already threshold braking I believe the tire can't physically slow you down any faster when you downshift while braking. Agreed that downshifting through each gear should make your brake pads last somewhat longer but it is not worth the additional risk of accidentally money shifting during those downshifts IMO.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

So few things:
1) Yes, there is still risk of going 5-2 instead of 5-4, but that's still better than going into 1st. 2nd is rather tall in our cars, so less risk of catastrophic damage.

Downshifting from 5th to 4th in a "downshift through each gear while braking" scenario would ideally happen around 140mph. An accidental 5th to 2nd downshift would result in a worse over-rev than the OP's situation in terms of rpm.

I very nearly did an accidental 5th to 2nd downshift at the end of the straightaway at NOLA back when it was bumpy before the repave but auto rev match clued me into my mistake before I fully released the clutch so thankfully I didn't over-rev when looking back at the PDR video. After that I stopped downshifting through each gear during braking and also found Ross Bentley's website recommending not downshifting through each gear while braking which the OP already linked to.

At the very least, you can wait until the HUD shows the gear you selected before you let the clutch out if you want to continue downshifting through each gear while braking.

Originally Posted by Kmeleon

The simple answer is if you put proper pressure on the shifter you will not hit the wrong gear when shifting. As many have said trying to go 5th to 3rd is not a "regular" shift and on the track when dealing with threshold braking and g forces it complicates the shift. Your point about possibly going 5th to 2nd means you're not holding the shifter properly,let the centering spring do the side to side work and just pull down. You'll never go 5th to 2nd if you use the correct pressure.

Sorry but I think bumpy braking zones can cause you to hit 2nd instead of 4th regardless of how you hold the shifter and how much pressure you use. Thankfully they're rare on the tracks I have driven.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Downshifting from 5th to 4th in a "downshift through each gear while braking" scenario would ideally happen around 140mph. An accidental 5th to 2nd downshift would result in a worse over-rev than the OP's situation in terms of rpm.

I very nearly did an accidental 5th to 2nd downshift at the end of the straightaway at NOLA back when it was bumpy before the repave but auto rev match clued me into my mistake before I fully released the clutch so thankfully I didn't over-rev when looking back at the PDR video. After that I stopped downshifting through each gear during braking and also found Ross Bentley's website recommending not downshifting through each gear while braking which the OP already linked to.

At the very least, you can wait until the HUD shows the gear you selected before you let the clutch out if you want to continue downshifting through each gear while braking.

If we’re talking about if it’s better to go into 1st at 90, or 2nd at 130, we are having the wrong conversation.

Heal and toe, go sequential, left foot brake in the right corners. It’s all about becoming a better driver. Does skipping gears make your a better driver? Or does practicing fast, sequential shifts with the heal and toe pedal dance this requires?

I know my answer. But that doesn’t make me right.

[cdrptrks]

If you're downshifting once at the end of the brake zone, the speed would be significantly lower than 90mph. Turn in for turn 1 at VIR starts at around 65mph while trail braking in an SS 1LE on stock tires.

[LancevanceZLE]

The nurburgring lap with the ZLE does not skip any gears. Go watch the YouTube video. If it's good enough for a nurburgring record lap its good enough for us

[arpad_m]

Video is hard to find on youtube, because it was unlisted (removed from the search scope) and now only low quality copycats come up (why, GM, why?), so here is a direct link: https://youtu.be/t4zSIVpVMaw

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by LancevanceZLE

The nurburgring lap with the ZLE does not skip any gears. Go watch the YouTube video. If it's good enough for a nurburgring record lap its good enough for us

THIS.

Pros don't skip gears. Otherwise might as well drive a DTC or an Auto. Let it figure out how and when to shift.

By the way, here was my attempt in a 2017 BMW M2. Manual of course. No skipping gears either.