GM's Battery Electric lineup is going to be HOT

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

This would work for apartment dwellers and others, etc. who can't charge at home or in a garage.

THEM: No construction necessary. Fits in two parking spots.

ME: Where’s the inventory and how do you know which battery is needed for my car? Or the next car? Or the next car? Who integrates the new battery to the systems in the car powered by the battery pack? (And many, many more questions)

[90503]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

THEM: No construction necessary. Fits in two parking spots.

ME: Where’s the inventory and how do you know which battery is needed for my car? Or the next car? Or the next car? Who integrates the new battery to the systems in the car powered by the battery pack? (And many, many more questions)

At some point there will need to be standardization. Perhaps not every station would have batteries for every car, but if enough were the same it might work.

Just maybe there would need to be more than one station with one for each style or same type of battery set up.

If they claim to be able to make autonomous cars, they could make this work...lol

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

At some point there will need to be standardization. Perhaps not every station would have batteries for every car, but if enough were the same it might work.

Just maybe there would need to be more than one station with one for each style or same type of battery set up.

If they claim to be able to make autonomous cars, they could make this work...lol

Whom are you expecting to come to standardize what? Battery composition and chemistry so that any battery works with any car? Not happening. Location and connection points for batteries? They won’t necessarily be common for all vehicles in the same brand, let alone across the industries. One of the easiest things to commonize would be tires, I mean they’re all round. And black. And rubber with funny lines on the flat surfaces. But look at where we are there.

[90503]

I guess the Chinese we're so fond of using as the impetus for the EV market could use your input before they invest too much in this loser.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...25-2021-09-26/

September 26, 2021
2:00 AM PDT
Last Updated 2 days ago
Autos & Transportation
China's Geely to set up 5,000 battery swapping stations by 2025
Reuters





1 minute read
The Geely logo is seen at a car dealership in Shanghai, China August 17, 2021. Picture taken August 17, 2021. REUTERS/Aly Song
The Geely logo is seen at a car dealership in Shanghai, China August 17, 2021. Picture taken August 17, 2021. REUTERS/Aly Song

BEIJING, Sept 26 (Reuters) - China's Geely (GEELY.UL) aims to set up 5,000 battery swapping stations for electric vehicles (EV) globally by 2025, as sales grow in the world's biggest vehicle market, the automaker said in a statement on Sunday.

A battery swapping station allows drivers to change car batteries to power the rides. Chinese automaker Nio Inc (NIO.N) plans to have 4,000 battery swapping stations globally by 2025.

China is promoting EV-related infrastructure facilities, including charging stations and battery swapping stations.

[90503]

Even if it's only one make and model, or a unique line of EVs....If there are enough of them, swapping batteries would be a reasonable option and convenience.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

I guess the Chinese we're so fond of using as the impetus for the EV market could use your input before they invest too much in this loser.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...25-2021-09-26/

September 26, 2021
2:00 AM PDT
Last Updated 2 days ago
Autos & Transportation
China's Geely to set up 5,000 battery swapping stations by 2025
Reuters





1 minute read
The Geely logo is seen at a car dealership in Shanghai, China August 17, 2021. Picture taken August 17, 2021. REUTERS/Aly Song
The Geely logo is seen at a car dealership in Shanghai, China August 17, 2021. Picture taken August 17, 2021. REUTERS/Aly Song

BEIJING, Sept 26 (Reuters) - China's Geely (GEELY.UL) aims to set up 5,000 battery swapping stations for electric vehicles (EV) globally by 2025, as sales grow in the world's biggest vehicle market, the automaker said in a statement on Sunday.

A battery swapping station allows drivers to change car batteries to power the rides. Chinese automaker Nio Inc (NIO.N) plans to have 4,000 battery swapping stations globally by 2025.

China is promoting EV-related infrastructure facilities, including charging stations and battery swapping stations.

I saw all that. Looks shockingly like all the press releases when Renault and PSA were aligning with Better Place to do the same thing in Europe. When it became clear to Renault and PSA that they would need to give a fair amount of control over the development parameters of their architectures and battery box structures to Better Place, they backed (ran, actually) away from it. Better Place is now in a better place. If Geely can pull it off, more power to ‘em, but it would likely only work for their own specific vehicles. And Nio replacement centers would only work for Nio vehicles. Unless they agree to collaborate early in vehicle development to commonize important touch points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place_(company)

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 90503

Even if it's only one make and model, or a unique line of EVs....If there are enough of them, swapping batteries would be a reasonable option and convenience.

Go from major intersections to remote stations. How many fully charged batteries do you need to have stored? 100? 1000?

Then figure what equipment is required to hoist a 1,000 pound battery into a car or truck or SUV. And how long does it actually take to remove and reinstall a 1,000 pound battery? And compare that to Porsche that has already shown you can charge a battery to 80% in 15 minutes. It’s just not practical.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Want an end to this electric junk?

VOTE.

No, I'm fine with it and the LAST thing I would consider is voting for people who would destroy the progress made for ideological reasons.

I think GM's implementation has the look and feel of a cliff dive into a 1 foot river but overall it will do a great deal for the environment, help the energy storage issue for renewables and save money for a lot of people given the inherent mechanical simplicity of the designs.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

No, I'm fine with it and the LAST thing I would consider is voting for people who would destroy the progress made for ideological reasons.

I think GM's implementation has the look and feel of a cliff dive into a 1 foot river but overall it will do a great deal for the environment, help the energy storage issue for renewables and save money for a lot of people given the inherent mechanical simplicity of the designs.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Go from major intersections to remote stations. How many fully charged batteries do you need to have stored? 100? 1000?

Then figure what equipment is required to hoist a 1,000 pound battery into a car or truck or SUV. And how long does it actually take to remove and reinstall a 1,000 pound battery? And compare that to Porsche that has already shown you can charge a battery to 80% in 15 minutes. It’s just not practical.

This. Jamming electrons at the highest possible speed down a standard charging interface is wildly easier. High energy electrical connections are no joke, repeated connections/decouplings are the stuff of wear, high-resistance connections, intense heat and fires. Chargers have issues with this also and need to be well maintained but it's a MUCH simpler system to maintain and troubleshoot. Additionally, as has been mentioned, the frame of the cars are evolving to BE the battery. We're not going to be seeing widespread use of battery swapping stations- that ship has sailed into the harbor and capsized

Tesla's proprietary charging model, however IS very interesting! If the whole freakin industry is really doing this, and they are, and even if 50 percent BEV penetration becomes a reality, then EVERYONE will be able to use the standard charging interface EVERYWHERE, except Teslas with their proprietary chargers at grocery store and motel parking lots. The Gas station model works well, Americans like it. Will station operators be willing to maintain gasoline, the electric standard AND Tesla chargers? I assume that Tesla will try to move into this space but their proprietary system will become an impediment to their own growth and acceptance over time from what I can see.

[Fak_Ork]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

I am one of those apartment people mentioned which is why Full EV is out of the question for me.

I hear you but you're already driving to a gas station and sticking something into a port on the side of your vehicle. I'm not going to pretend that matching the range of a tank of gas or the speed of dispensing is going to be easy but fueling and vehicle maintenance cost should be cut significantly so I think an apartment dweller could make it work.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Fak_Ork

I hear you but you're already driving to a gas station and sticking something into a port on the side of your vehicle. I'm not going to pretend that matching the range of a tank of gas or the speed of dispensing is going to be easy but fueling and vehicle maintenance cost should be cut significantly so I think an apartment dweller could make it work.

An apartment dweller should not have to make it work. The engineers should make it so it works with the apartment dweller not the other way around. I rather not spend more than 10 min at a gas station. I fill up then go. It's my money and EVs are not the right incentive for my situation. Hybrids are another discussion since you don't need to plug those in. Also outside of roadtrips I drive only 7k combined with my wife in our daily driver per year and the camaro only has 2700 miles on it since I bought it in February 2020. Where I live the taxes and reg fees are much more expensive as well as insurance for most EVs so in turn that makes a 50/50 in terms of cost of ownership when comparing to maintenance for the first 7-8 years which yes we calculated.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

An apartment dweller should not have to make it work. The engineers should make it so it works with the apartment dweller not the other way around. I rather not spend more than 10 min at a gas station. I fill up then go. It's my money and EVs are not the right incentive for my situation. Hybrids are another discussion since you don't need to plug those in. Also outside of roadtrips I drive only 7k combined with my wife in our daily driver per year and the camaro only has 2700 miles on it since I bought it in February 2020. Where I live the taxes and reg fees are much more expensive as well as insurance for most EVs so in turn that makes a 50/50 in terms of cost of ownership when comparing to maintenance for the first 7-8 years which yes we calculated.

This is why there will still be ICE based vehicles for quite some time. There are still some use cases where BEV doesn’t work well. Apartment dwellers without dedicated parking is first and foremost among those use cases. There is work being done to install charging stations on street lamps that can help address the problem. For the ICE vehicles that will likely be left after around 2030, it’s very unlikely that any will be performance vehicles or muscle cars. EVs do performance too well to provide much incentive for automakers to keep producing low volume specialty vehicles just for the sake of having a sexy exhaust note.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

This is why there will still be ICE based vehicles for quite some time. There are still some use cases where BEV doesn’t work well. Apartment dwellers without dedicated parking is first and foremost among those use cases. There is work being done to install charging stations on street lamps that can help address the problem. For the ICE vehicles that will likely be left after around 2030, it’s very unlikely that any will be performance vehicles or muscle cars. EVs do performance too well to provide much incentive for automakers to keep producing low volume specialty vehicles just for the sake of having a sexy exhaust note.

Now this makes sense and yes I do agree I do not expect too see much in the way of ICE performance vehicles with low volume past 2030 unless they decide to have it a hybrid but its probably a low chance for that. I think it is also safe to say that pickup trucks are one of those types of vehicles that will have an ICE or hybrid long term along with BEV option.