seeing double thread request from Camaro5 owner

[Scotavo]

"These are the options"

Live with sloppy steering or fix the root cause of it, no STB alone can do that because the root cause is not the top of the strut tower.

"This is where is goes"

6-8" below the top of the tower. BMRSTB012, originally labelled a SFC. It is.

"This is where you weld"

Two places on both towers. First is at the bolt on points 6-8" below the top. Second is on the top of the sub frame, pass side is a straight-line piece of steel, drive side too but it requires a little nudge to some plumbing. Yes, welding the bolt on points is optimal because even the small squirm of a bolt on is not. Under the car a BMRSFC013 is one case in point. Best welded also.

"This is where you bolt"

You loosen the ABS module and use its bracket to bolt on the BMR012 on the pass side. Drivers side same on empty post.

"This is what it does"

Leverages against the tower where The Holden Review of year 2000 identified a weak spot that allowed flexing of the metal in all Holden cars. Pre and post 2000. Spring rate they labeled it. This is where the 3/8" movement comes from when driving, clear on video from under hood camera, not the top. The top is where the video shows the movement, not the source of it. Jacking one wheel allows for brace tension against the towers, makes it very tight. By eliminating the tower flex, the steering becomes precise.

[Moto-Mojo]

I’m not sure if this is just your anti-Holden crusade I heard about or what but, having driven unmodified vehicles from the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, up to present, I have a pretty good idea of what real, sloppy steering feels and felt like. My Camaro is light years from the definition of ‘sloppy steering’ of yesteryear. Granted, it’s probably not Formula One tight but I don’t even know what that would feel like.

How does that fix differ from the myriad of aftermarket strut tower braces available?

[Scotavo]

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

How does that fix differ from the myriad of aftermarket strut tower braces available?

The imprecise steering is caused by flex in the strut towers. Holden's 2000 review was very clear, all Holden cars from 1970's to the end. A video from years ago shows the top of the strut tower moving 3/8" in normal driving. You can see the top of the strut tower moving but the cause is 6-8" lower. The flex is in the tower. This modification loads tension into both towers. Then any STB can do its job. Without making the tower solid, no STB can.

Anti-Holden crusade? That is stupid and wrong. Right now I own 5 Holden cars, built from 2004 to 2014. All driven daily and all loved. Check the IQ of your sources for such a brain dead, moronic assertion. Or they just lie.

[Scotavo]

Ok Maybe confused or malicious. Lots of people hate how I write, not just what I write. "don't let it define you" I've been told a million times. They didn't even call it Autism when I was diagnosed. Too long ago for those new etiology words.
Fanatical, obsessive systematizing, genetic, not able to be mitigated. Those who hate how I write, don't read anything under my name. Systematizing of the fanatical kind then will not be irritating for you, nor beneficial.

[Moto-Mojo]

I don’t have any particular axe to grind with you. And have no issues with your writing style whatsoever. I guess I’m rather provincial in my automotive social media forays. I pretty much hang out here. LS1 a bit. I’m unfamiliar with your ‘chequered past’ as it were!

I have no idea how much the steering ‘could’ be improved on my car and unfortunately, I’ll probably never drive The Great St. Bernard or Furka Passes (though I’d love to) so I’ll probably spend my sleepless, Camaro owner nights worrying more about crappy AFM lifter failures over imprecise steering issues.

[NOT A 45]

I fixed my sloppy steering issues not under the hood, but in the trunk......that's where I keep my beer now! Car drives soo much better.

[Scotavo]

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

I’ll probably never drive The Great St. Bernard or Furka Passes (though I’d love to)

The reference and the sentiment is much appreciated.

[Scotavo]

Originally Posted by NOT A 45

I fixed my sloppy steering issues not under the hood, but in the trunk......that's where I keep my beer now! Car drives soo much better.

It was a post like that that got me banned elsewhere. Well done! And a well done to the moderator here.

[Nate2SS]

This was something I found digging in the old posts. Another gentleman said it could be a loose bolt/connection anywhere from the steering all the way to the wheels.
Furthermore, he also stated that if the car is on the ground and off (given the wheel is not locked) that you can move the steering wheel around and determine from there if play is present.

+1 to the Stig. Radius rod bushings. You can also replace the steering rack bushing while you're in there too for only $30 more. They make inserts if you don't want to do a full replacement.

I went with the Prothane inserts and steering rack bushing from JDP motorsports. I think it only cost $40 for the parts and had them installed in my garage in an hour or so.

Steering rack:
http://www.jdpmotorsports.com/manufa...amaro-ss-7-703

Inserts:
http://www.jdpmotorsports.com/manufa...amaro-ss-7-239

If you prefer the full bushing:
http://www.jdpmotorsports.com/manufa...amaro-ss-7-238

Best of luck in your endeavor, I would also have to agree with your strut tower comment only if the bolts are loosening. There's a point in time where an impact can get a bolt so tight that I cannot see it much different than a weld other than a molecular standpoint. If you're worried, locktite exists. Maybe I do not see it the same way you do.

[Scotavo]

I'm using Holdens 2000 Engineering Review and have some claiming I hate Holden cars for doing so. Holden blamed "the imprecise steering" complaint THEY made on the tower flex, 6-8" from the top. Currently my 5 Holden cars get a lot of use (big family). Various feedback but my favorite was about my 04 GTO. A friend of my son said "It feels like my Miata, except with a V-8". After my son passed that along, I had to ask for more detail. "It turns so flat and I always know where the tires are pointing". Now my most radical Caprice was even easier to duplicate that because its weight distribution is 50/50 but the GTO and Caprice have ALL the same chassis modifications (NOT suspension ones). The solid bar between the two rear most K-member/sub frame bolts take 177 ft. lbs. of torque to tighten. Even solid and non- adjustable that bar does wonders. The adjustable is on a Caprice and so hard to make a definitive claim about any improvement over the solid on the GTO. You wrote "best of luck with your endeavor" and I hope that was meant sincerely. I've gotten a lot of abuse here while attempting to bring the insights from Holden.

[Moto-Mojo]

Ok, so now you’ve planted some seed. Im not sure it’s anything new and I can’t remember a ‘start date’ but there are a series of speed bumps in the complex where I live. There’s a fairly audible bump or thud coming from the front end as it seems to come down off the bump. Possibly somewhat going up it too. Steering feels normal and response seems pretty tight and precise. The car has 29K miles. Is this one of the symptoms?

[Scotavo]

Yes

[Scotavo]

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

Ok, so now you’ve planted some seed. Im not sure it’s anything new and I can’t remember a ‘start date’ but there are a series of speed bumps in the complex where I live. There’s a fairly audible bump or thud coming from the front end as it seems to come down off the bump. Possibly somewhat going up it too. Steering feels normal and response seems pretty tight and precise. The car has 29K miles. Is this one of the symptoms?

All Holden cars have this issue and it is why the engineering report focused on the K-frame. No bushings on the front sub frame attachment was an attempt to mitigate it and it was not enough. Like the strut tower flex, the fix is more complicated. A clue is that it takes 177 pounds of torque to tighten the sub frame bolts but preload is required to delete the flex in the K-frame. I prefer pushing both sides of the K to the outside of the car, put physics 101 shows pulling will work too. If you are used to the noise, it will be a revelation the moment you drive the car after the K-frame brace is installed. One mod that is instantly noticeable. Spohn C10 996 adjustable K-frame brace.