[ZL1C7]

With short travels Its common to end up with 4-6 different lengths and that's after rounding off a few of them. I have had LS7' s with even more variation. If you don't want to do the work and spend the money for custom push rods or adjustable rockers, LS7 lifters are the only way to go. Manton is starting to get stricter on custom orders. They only want 3 different lengths max. It's common for us the order 2 complete sets of custom push rods before I am happy with the end results.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Would it be worth it to go with an adjustable rocker with Johnson Lifters? Is there a readily available one for LT engines?

The issue with most adjustable rockers is that they are heavier than stock. Added weight over the nose can cause valvetrain instability if not addressed properly. I believe this is why most use stock style rockers and different length pushrods if needed. Manton pushrods are not "that expensive". 3/8 .095 wall series 3 are around 15.00 each.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by ZL1C7

With short travels Its common to end up with 4-6 different lengths and that's after rounding off a few of them. I have had LS7' s with even more variation. If you don't want to do the work and spend the money for custom push rods or adjustable rockers, LS7 lifters are the only way to go. Manton is starting to get stricter on custom orders. They only want 3 different lengths max. It's common for us the order 2 complete sets of custom push rods before I am happy with the end results.

After torquing my heads down with the 0.028 gaskets, I measured again with my old 7.800s and I am getting 0.005-0.020 or so. So I figure with another .010-0.015 for aluminum expansion vs steel and an additional 0.100 longer pushrod, I should be right below 0.100 preload with 7.900s, so I ordered a set. There is a lot of different numbers, and even some people claiming on forums that GMPP told them different numbers, but it appears the LS7s work between 0.070 and 0.100 with more near 0.100 being better for noise supposedly.

Measuring with the dial indicator on these engines is hard since for one its aluminum everywhere and hard to mount the dial indicator in a good spot, and there are also no good flat spots to probe the lift since the curves and motion of the valve throw the measurement off some. On top of that, the valves have a significant splay to them as well. My degree measurements seem off and I repeated it a bunch of times trying different measurements and resetting the degree wheel and I kept getting the same results. The intake duration seems ok and within a degree or so from advertised, but the exhaust seems way off, I know the 230 is just advertised with an exhaust duration of 24X degrees, but I don't think its as high as what I was getting:







The lifters kept being difficult as well and I was going to try to cut down my test springs and try to take some preload out of them, but I ended up finding my old original factory non-AFM lifters and one of them was still pumped up fully for some reason and it would not compress at all. I would of thought the lifter plunger/cup spring would have been strong enough to not compress at all with the tester spring, but I think it was having a slight effect and on some of them I could see the dial indicator decrease a few thousands after a few min, but it was just too hard to tell if there was movement. So I swapped it in for the intake and exhaust position on #1 and checked everything again but still no change.

The extra exhaust duration might be it hanging on closing is the only thing I can think of without tearing the motor back down and taking the cam out. Even though I measured the centerlines, just lost the numbers I wrote down unfortunately, the 19 degree overlap dosen't make sense I don't think this cam has near that much overlap, and of course using the advertised specs only gives you 12.5 degrees.

[bennettbrowder3]

(/QUOTE)I usually go about 1-1.5 times the engine oil life monitor. I was just using the regular PF-64E oil filter as well,
So I do run E85 (usually around 60-70% alcohol content) basically 100% of the time but I never really gave much thought into oil compatibility with alcohol fuels or that it could be causing an issue. Are you concerned about dissolved water in the oil/fuel from alcohol content or what?[/QUOTE]

You go 1-1.5 times the oil life monitor?? Why would you do that on a Cammed engine? How many miles is 1-1.5 times the oil life monitor? Running E change the oil at 3000 miles.

[Joey Soul]

Dam that sucks. Im running a btr 225 on conicals right with morrell lifters now. I only have about 1500 miles on it but good so far

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by bennettbrowder3

(/QUOTE)I usually go about 1-1.5 times the engine oil life monitor. I was just using the regular PF-64E oil filter as well,
So I do run E85 (usually around 60-70% alcohol content) basically 100% of the time but I never really gave much thought into oil compatibility with alcohol fuels or that it could be causing an issue. Are you concerned about dissolved water in the oil/fuel from alcohol content or what?

You go 1-1.5 times the oil life monitor?? Why would you do that on a Cammed engine? How many miles is 1-1.5 times the oil life monitor? Running E change the oil at 3000 miles.[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen any signs that I should change it any sooner, the viscosity and TBN was still good and no signs of any contamination. Of course the high wear metals was a concern but now I know for sure where that was coming from. I'm not saying this was right or wrong, I just think modern oils and modern engines are good about not contaminating and wearing out the oil, and I think the oil life monitor is going to be programmed very conservative. Even when I ran close to 20k, the oil was still showing plenty of life, but if you are going to change the filter you might as well change the oil as well.

One thing I did have a problem with though is the stupid dipstick, not sure if its supposed to be installed with the exhaust manifold or what but its not easy to get in and the o-ring isn't the best fit in the hole in the top of the oil pan flange. So I think last time I tried to install it without taking the manifold back off and taking the head shield off and fought with it for an hour or so. I don't think it really fully seated in the hole and might have come out, but I'm pretty sure there was dirt in the bottom of the oil pan, and this explains the higher silicone I was seeing. So everyone doing work on these needs to make sure their dipstick is fully seated in the hole, and the service info actually says you are supposed to use a new o-ring if you ever take it out. I was thinking of trying to put some RTV when I put the motor back together on it to try to seal it up for sure, but I bought a new dipstick tube with a new o-ring on it so hopefully its sealed now. I found you pretty much have to take the manifold, top manifold heat shield, and the coolant tank out to properly seat it in the pan and get the manifold screwed into the heads at the same time without bending and scratching up the tube. Also, if you bend it significantly, I think the spot welds holding the bracket on could crack and cause a leak either way. They could have done better with the dipstick design but I am sure they had packaging reasons, but its a good argument for all the people complaining about dipsticks being replaced by oil level sensors.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Joey Soul

Dam that sucks. Im running a btr 225 on conicals right with morrell lifters now. I only have about 1500 miles on it but good so far

Did you run your stock retainers with the BTR conicals? I am getting conflicting info because I thought they told me I could, but then I could never end up finding my stock ones, so at least for now, I am sticking with my old PAC dual springs. In the conical spring package there is an piece of paper that tells you not to run the stock seals.

[Joey Soul]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

Did you run your stock retainers with the BTR conicals? I am getting conflicting info because I thought they told me I could, but then I could never end up finding my stock ones, so at least for now, I am sticking with my old PAC dual springs. In the conical spring package there is an piece of paper that tells you not to run the stock seals.

I ran the retainers that came with the spring package, they do seem identical as the oem one though. Ya you have to run the included seals because theyre shorter, probably related to cam lift specs amd avoiding interference.

[cmitchell17]

So with the BTR 230 cam with LS7 lifters, BTR calls them "Delphi" since I guess they are not a regular production GM part anymore and the rights sold to Delphi, it is definitely just as loud as it was before unfortunately.

It's really noticeable inside the cab when you let off the throttle and it starts to cost at about 20-30 miles an hour, sounds almost kind of jingle belly sound but a little more heavier steel and mettalic sounding. I think the sewing machine noise is just normal GEN V stuff mixed in with some direct injection sound and it definitely makes that noise as well but I believe all of them do that decently loud.

I listened with a stethoscope and from the valve cover, front timing cover, and water pump aluminum, everything sounds exactly like it did before. So I figured I would try some thicker oil and got some Mobil 1 15W-50 "Race Proven", which also has more zinc and phosphorus than regular 5W-30 dexos. So at first it seemed to help, which really suprised me, but then as it starts to warm up a little it comes back, or maybe its just a consequence of being able to hear it better as it warms up and other noises start to go away.

However, I did notice with the stethoscope as I start to get more towards the valley cover and lifter area, I hear a very loud and bad sounding noise which is more rod knock kind of sound. The weird thing is for as loud as this noise is above everything else when your listening through the stethoscope, not sure I can't detect it specifically from the outside. Either way this noise is definitely lifter related.

Also after checking preload again with the 7.900s, I was averaging around 0.085, which should be about perfect for "LS7" lifters, but then again the preload that people run with them is all over the place. After accounting for 0.010-0.015 expansion for aluminum heads and block, the 7.900s should be good, but I ended up finding some 7.925's and ordered them.

I hate throwing money at the problem with stuff I am pretty sure won't help like higher weight oil, but I would l would like to rule those out completely.

I know sound is one of those OCD type things and some people will convince themselves they have a problem, when the reality is you have to accept some noise, especially with non-stock components.

I will say the 15W-50 probably does make some since given it's got higher (less catalyst friendly) anti-wear additives and the higher viscosity should be better under higher cam lobe loads at least.

[Tripwire1124]

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

The lifter trays are also pretty loose and won't hold the lifters anymore, they fall out or turn side to side.

Did you go replaced the lifter trays as well? I had an old trans am that fell victim to turning lifters and it destroyed the hell out of the cam and lifters. Long story short, it was supposed to be a built engine, but someone cheaped out in lifter trays and they would turn going up the lobe of the cam, and didn't live very long. It was also very noisy.

[Tim M]

Very unfortunate and frustrating it must be. Wish you the best luck...

[6spdhyperblue]

I wonder if you can text Btr a video of it running and see what they say

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Tripwire1124

Did you go replaced the lifter trays as well? I had an old trans am that fell victim to turning lifters and it destroyed the hell out of the cam and lifters. Long story short, it was supposed to be a built engine, but someone cheaped out in lifter trays and they would turn going up the lobe of the cam, and didn't live very long. It was also very noisy.

Yes, I made sure to get new ones. I did buy the BTR private label ones which I guess are just re-labeled OEM ones, but not sure.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Tim M

Very unfortunate and frustrating it must be. Wish you the best luck...

Thanks, and for some reason I think I just accept it at this point. I don't think I would think twice about pulling it out again to check and/or fix something again.

The biggest problem is just the money you spend in gaskets and everything else. I was going to reuse my Cometic 0.028 gaskets because they are almost $250 for both, but the viton rubber overmold started to peel off and it was missing from around the fire ring area as well and I tried to clean them with a little break cleaner and that lifted it right off so I just figured I buy new ones again.

I wish we could just modify the OEM ones, those are somewhat of a kind of reasonable price but not really.