[cdrptrks]

N Camarolina I agree with your suggestions/feedback to Robster and I'm glad you made it out of that one without hitting anything unlike this unfortunate person:


After a lot of driving on several relatively flat tracks with lots of runoff, I found VIR to be quite intimidating even though I
thoroughly memorized the track layout beforehand and am comfortable catching slides due to the possible major consequences of losing control in some places although the uphill esses were quite the experience! You will gain more experience correcting slides over time but there may be better tracks in your general area to hone that skill. Autocross (especially staying in 1st gear) helped me with this too and I still try to do autocross practice events a few times per year to stay sharp even though I enjoy road courses more.

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

N Camarolina I agree with your suggestions/feedback to Robster and I'm glad you made it out of that one without hitting anything unlike this unfortunate person:


After a lot of driving on several relatively flat tracks with lots of runoff, I found VIR to be quite intimidating even though I
thoroughly memorized the track layout beforehand and am comfortable catching slides due to the possible major consequences of losing control in some places although the uphill esses were quite the experience! You will gain more experience correcting slides over time but there may be better tracks in your general area to hone that skill. Autocross (especially staying in 1st gear) helped me with this too and I still try to do autocross practice events a few times per year to stay sharp even though I enjoy road courses more.

Thanks for the suggestions to get skid control practice. I was all too aware of the close wall on the left of T10, so when the tail stepped out just before the crest/downhill and the first 40 degrees of correction didn't stop the rotation, I errored on going overboard to ensure I had the car going back to the right before I reached the crest. Presumably the downhill would have lightened the rear further and increased the spin rate, and I didn't want any part of that.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Thanks for the suggestions to get skid control practice. I was all too aware of the close wall on the left of T10, so when the tail stepped out just before the crest/downhill and the first 40 degrees of correction didn't stop the rotation, I errored on going overboard to ensure I had the car going back to the right before I reached the crest. Presumably the downhill would have lightened the rear further and increased the spin rate, and I didn't want any part of that.

Nice save! And in the end that's what matters!

I've had a few close calls in my 8 years of doing HPDEs as well. Only 1 spin and LOTS of big skids, but I'm lucky not to have hit anything yet.

These were my closest calls so far. Took too wide of a line through Wehrseifen on the 'Ring, and it almost cost me a BMW M2. Took lots of steering and braking modulation to inch the car over in the right direction.

It's off camber, and the oils drip towards the outside of the track. When on it, steering OR braking become very ineffective. That's why the proper line through there is tights to the inside. Lesson learned in my sub 8 min Nurburgring lap chase.



This was another good one. 120mph skid at Schwedenkreutz going into Aremberg. This one became routine after a while. Bump increasing in magnitude the further away you are from the apex. Definite thrill.






And then there was some sliding in Pflantzgarten. Nurburgring is such a blast.

[N Camarolina]

Wow @Monster!! That kind of nonchalance of skid correction at high speed, with the Armco only a couple of feet off either side if the track, I can only manage on Forza Motorsport. In real life, the pucker factor is so much higher (likely a human self protection mechanism). Perhaps with more skid control experience I'll be able to treat it like any other regular thing (trail braking, track out, etc).

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

Wow @Monster!! That kind of nonchalance of skid correction at high speed, with the Armco only a couple of feet off either side if the track, I can only manage on Forza Motorsport. In real life, the pucker factor is so much higher (likely a human self protection mechanism). Perhaps with more skid control experience I'll be able to treat it like any other regular thing (trail braking, track out, etc).

Thank you! And don't get me wrong. It was scary as hell. I close my eyes all the time!

But for reals, getting comfortable with skids, catching them, extending them and ultimately using them to maintain speed is how we all get faster. For safety, for speed, for whatever the reason, we must become ok with side slip.

This is why driver mod is never done. Comfortable at Speed A? Move on to speed B. The trick is being able to go just a tiny bit past the limit without crashing. I really try hard to reign my speed demon in, start slow and build my way up. Disrespecting the course is the best way to wipe out bad.

I still have a ton to learn. And I'm excited to get better as I push myself. This is such a rewarding hobby. Driver mod for life!

P.S. Great point about self preservation instinct. That's exactly what I had to turn down low to do a fast lap around the 'Ring. Otherwise it's a no go. Now I try to apply this to get new PBs at local tracks. Within reason of course! And the skills get better and better along the way. And then the confidence. And thus the lap times. And the circle continues.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by MikeEM1

One positive thing about living in CA is the amount of tracks we have. We're spoiled. This one is the most boring. Basically 4 drag strips with some turns. Pretty flat elevation.

I'd take it. It still has 21 corners (more than my local tracks), and a lot of high speed sections. Seems not too hard on brakes and tires either, and allows high top speeds. I like speed

[MikeEM1]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I'd take it. It still has 21 corners (more than my local tracks), and a lot of high speed sections. Seems not too hard on brakes and tires either, and allows high top speeds. I like speed

You would like Buttonwillow here, high speed technical track and Big Willow, a better high speed track than Auto Club Speedway.

[Robster]

Well, since we're sharing some highlight reels, this is why I decided I needed some oversteer car control training.

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

That's great that you've had some car control clinics and want more of the same. I myself want (and need) that as well and have to find viable options to practice making the tail step out and then implement CPR. So far I have only had one opportunity to catch the rear (aka made a significant mistake) and I wasn't entirely successful (went off the track in a semi controlled manner). Scary as $h!t when you are doing 90mph at the apex of T10 at VIR and the tail steps out. Here's a link for your entertainment:

[Robster]

Wow 5.M0NSTER
That's some insane level of car control!

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Nice save! And in the end that's what matters!

I've had a few close calls in my 8 years of doing HPDEs as well. Only 1 spin and LOTS of big skids, but I'm lucky not to have hit anything yet.

These were my closest calls so far....

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Robster

Well, since we're sharing some highlight reels, this is why I decided I needed some oversteer car control training.

That is a tricky spot! Apex over significant crest. Front comes over and bites, but the rear is very light and the car rotates. I hope there was no damage to the car.

I would recommend doing a car control clinic. It's a good place to start learning about over and under steer correction, car balance, weight transfer and all the good stuff. Than work on applying those lessons on the track, and before you know it, you'll be adding steering correction in anticipation of the slide which is just about to happen.

[kropscamaro16]

Originally Posted by MikeEM1

You would like Buttonwillow here, high speed technical track and Big Willow, a better high speed track than Auto Club Speedway.

yup we going next month with ongrid if you down sir?

[N Camarolina]

Originally Posted by Robster

Well, since we're sharing some highlight reels, this is why I decided I needed some oversteer car control training.

As Monster pointed out, when you go over a crest, the rear will get light and be much more prone to rotate if there is any steering angle dialed in. To prevent this you can 1) use maintenance throttle as you approach and go over the crest, to help keep more weight on the rear wheels 2) open the wheel a bit right just before you get to the crest, or 3) both.

I looked carefully at your vid in slow motion. In your spin, if you look at the friction circle meter, it looks to me like you may have gone beyond the max traction of the rear tires right after you pressed on the break pedal near the apex. You already had almost the max lateral G before you pressed the brake pedal, and adding the additional longitudonal deceleration G was more grip than the tires could provide.

My spin had a different cause (I trailed the brake too far toward the apex), but the point at which the rear end broke free was caused by the same G loading problem. I already had the G load (lateral from turning plus longitudonal from slowing down) at the limit as I approached the apex, and when I released the brakes (apparently not as smoothly as I needed to) it broke the rear tires free because there simply wasn't any more rear grip to be had.

[N Camarolina]

I'd like to consider doing a car control clinic to practice oversteer CPR. Am hoping to develop some muscle memory for amount of opposite lock required and therefore want to be in my car rather than some other one that has a different steering rack ratio.

Does anyone know how to find out about clinics that are available and whether you can use your own car?

[Robster]

Originally Posted by N Camarolina

I'd like to consider doing a car control clinic to practice oversteer CPR. Am hoping to develop some muscle memory for amount of opposite lock required and therefore want to be in my car rather than some other one that has a different steering rack ratio.

Does anyone know how to find out about clinics that are available and whether you can use your own car?

I did this one and it was very helpful: https://www.fastsideways.com/


I'll post some PDR videos of the instructions later. Did it with my car for the same reasons you mentioned above.