Dang no Camaro, Mach1 no show, type r too bouncy, m2 destroys.

[Msquared]

Guys, the M2 Comp (not CS) is significantly faster than the SS 1LE in autocross competition (they are in the same class). The only other car in class that is a match for it is the new Supra. It's also as fast or faster in the quarter mile. I don't know why anyone would think an SS 1LE would "destroy" it in any competition. Now, the M2 Comp costs ZL1 money, possibly even ZLE money in the real world. So on a dollar-for-dollar basis the equivalent Camaro will be a lot faster on a track.

[JK001]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Guys, the M2 Comp (not CS) is significantly faster than the SS 1LE in autocross competition (they are in the same class). The only other car in class that is a match for it is the new Supra. It's also as fast or faster in the quarter mile. I don't know why anyone would think an SS 1LE would "destroy" it in any competition. Now, the M2 Comp costs ZL1 money, possibly even ZLE money in the real world. So on a dollar-for-dollar basis the equivalent Camaro will be a lot faster on a track.

I believe a 5 second difference on a well established road course by a well established testing team does quality the definition "destroy" in motorsports terms. The cars would not be in the same class had they been allowed to compete in sanctioned events....

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

[NW-99SS]

Will NEVER own a Ford performance product for the simple fact that they don't stand behind them with warranty.

Rubbish...

[NYblack1le]

Originally Posted by JK001

I believe a 5 second difference on a well established road course by a well established testing team does quality the definition "destroy" in motorsports terms. The cars would not be in the same class had they been allowed to compete in sanctioned events....

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

X2. The car is built for the roadcoarse. Don’t know much about autocross but I can see the smaller vehicle taking the win. Hell could u even get out of first gear with the 1le in an autocross event ?

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by JK001

I believe a 5 second difference on a well established road course by a well established testing team does quality the definition "destroy" in motorsports terms. The cars would not be in the same class had they been allowed to compete in sanctioned events....

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

The M2 comes on Michelin PSS tires. Had they been on the same tires, that gap wouldn't exist.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

X2. The car is built for the roadcoarse. Don’t know much about autocross but I can see the smaller vehicle taking the win. Hell could u even get out of first gear with the 1le in an autocross event ?

Ummmm, yeah. You don't think an M2 Competition is built for a road course? And yeah, you get out of first gear in an autocross. The M2 has a 4" shorter wheelbase than a Camaro, and it's about 100lb lighter than the SS 1LE. It's about 1.5" narrower. So a little smaller, but not a massive difference.

[NYblack1le]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Ummmm, yeah. You don't think an M2 Competition is built for a road course? And yeah, you get out of first gear in an autocross. The M2 has a 4" shorter wheelbase than a Camaro, and it's about 100lb lighter than the SS 1LE. It's about 1.5" narrower. So a little smaller, but not a massive difference.

Didn’t say the m2 wasn’t built for a road course. But i don’t see shaving 5 seconds off a lap time at vir going from pss to sport cup 2’s but who knows.

[JK001]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

Didn’t say the m2 wasn’t built for a roadcoarse. But i don’t see shaving 5 seconds off a lap time at vir going from pss to sport cup 2’s but who knows.

@NYblack1le you nice to @Msquared !

The m2 was certainly not built for a road course. It is a tarted up 2 series that is trackable. The only M car built for track was the E30 which they had to make certain number street legal ones in order to enter the race class...M's mantra is "it has to be everything to everyone", never a single purpose car...and M is now the ultimate marketing machine laser focused on volume sales. And that's totally ok, many of the early M enthusiasts, like myself, have already moved on to other brands or stay with the old cars

[50MileSmile]

[QUOTE=And that's totally ok, many of the early M enthusiasts, like myself, have already moved on to other brands or stay with the old cars[/QUOTE]

Exactly. The new M3s and M4s with the double-Edsel grills feel like they’re the size of an Impala…

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

Didn’t say the m2 wasn’t built for a roadcoarse. But i don’t see shaving 5 seconds off a lap time at vir going from pss to sport cup 2’s but who knows.

It's a three-minute lap, so 5s is just barely more than 1.5s per minute. You can see it or not, but those tires alone would easily make a 1.5-second difference in a 60-second autocross lap. And the difference would be even greater over a multi-lap Lightning Lap session*, where the GYs will thrive on the heat and the Michelins will start getting greasy.

*They do one hard out lap and two flying laps before resting the car/tires.

[erwan7]

Originally Posted by Msquared

It's a three-minute lap, so 5s is just barely more than 1.5s per minute. You can see it or not, but those tires alone would easily make a 1.5-second difference in a 60-second autocross lap. And the difference would be even greater over a multi-lap Lightning Lap session*, where the GYs will thrive on the heat and the Michelins will start getting greasy.

*They do one hard out lap and two flying laps before resting the car/tires.

Cup2 1.5s faster than supercar3 on 60s run? Where did you get it from? Explain how ss 1le was faster on street of willow by 1s than m2 cs? Ss 1le will destroy m2/m2 comp on every track (don't care about autocroas) and will be as fast as m2cs( may be slower/faster depends of the track)

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by erwan7

Cup2 1.5s faster than supercar3 on 60s run?

They weren't on Cup2 tires. They were on Pilot Super Sports. I don't know which M2 Comps come with Cup2s - evidently some do - but theirs didn't.

EDIT: Shit, I just realized the tests were two years apart (2017 for 1LE vs 2019 for the M2 Comp). You can't really compare those times because who knows what the conditions were, the track surface, etc? Did they even use the same drivers? I can't find that info quickly. Maybe someone else can.

Ss 1le will destroy m2/m2 comp on every track (don't care about autocroas) and will be as fast as m2cs( may be slower/faster depends of the track)

Again, not if they are on equivalent tires. You can "care about autocroas" or not - makes no difference to me. But if they M2 Comp is faster than a 1LE in autocross competition and is also just as fast or faster in acceleration (both of which are well established), then there's no reason to think it wouldn't be at least as fast on a road course. It gets a slight edge in autocross competition due to being shorter and a bit narrower, and that stuff penalizes the Camaro mostly in slaloms. Those don't typically exist on a road course (chicanes, but those aren't nearly taxing as true slaloms). So I would predict very similar lap times on a road course for both cars on equal tires.

Understand that I'm not bashing the 1LE at all. For 2/3 the price (or less - I only paid 56% of M2 Comp money for my 2020 1LE) it's an incredible car. And its warranty covers track duty. I'm just being realistic. Like I said, for M2 Comp prices you can get a ZL1 or maybe even a ZLE, and that would definitely smoke the M2 Comp on any road course with any straights at all. Hell, you could even just about buy a C8 Z51, which really would decimate any M2 version they can dream up.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Msquared

They weren't on Cup2 tires. They were on Pilot Super Sports. I don't know which M2 Comps come with Cup2s - evidently some do - but theirs didn't.

EDIT: Shit, I just realized the tests were two years apart (2017 for 1LE vs 2019 for the M2 Comp). You can't really compare those times because who knows what the conditions were, the track surface, etc? Did they even use the same drivers? I can't find that info quickly. Maybe someone else can.


Again, not if they are on equivalent tires. You can "care about autocroas" or not - makes no difference to me. But if they M2 Comp is faster than a 1LE in autocross competition and is also just as fast or faster in acceleration (both of which are well established), then there's no reason to think it wouldn't be at least as fast on a road course. It gets a slight edge in autocross competition due to being shorter and a bit narrower, and that stuff penalizes the Camaro mostly in slaloms. Those don't typically exist on a road course (chicanes, but those aren't nearly taxing as true slaloms). So I would predict very similar lap times on a road course for both cars on equal tires.

Understand that I'm not bashing the 1LE at all. For 2/3 the price (or less - I only paid 56% of M2 Comp money for my 2020 1LE) it's an incredible car. And its warranty covers track duty. I'm just being realistic. Like I said, for M2 Comp prices you can get a ZL1 or maybe even a ZLE, and that would definitely smoke the M2 Comp on any road course with any straights at all. Hell, you could even just about buy a C8 Z51, which really would decimate any M2 version they can dream up.

Interesting armchair thread guys But, comments and responses are a bit of a dog's breakfast and dont follow apples to apples principles, where some replies kinda change track and make it a moving target...

Firstly, i KNOW, that Cup2 doesn't have 1.5 sec over a Pilot Sport over a 1min lap.
Secondly, the Streets of Willows reference was M2 CS which runs on Cup2s NOT Pilot Sports. Sure, maybe not the same day, or the same driver, but 1LE has recorded a faster lap.

In any case, we are comparing a car which cost is simply astronomical in comparison to the Camaro. So what's the point of that? Same point as comparing M2 CS to a GT3 RS: different financial orbit.

To me (and many of us here, obviously), an SS 1LE is the best track performer for the money. Not only this, but this car also permits a good driver to kick ass of some cars that cost twice as much (and often more, like a 600LT for example . We all know that. BUT, are there faster cars? Of course! However, one needs to move to a different zip code - money wise - to exceed what SS 1LE offers. The ONLY exceptions are its big brothers: ZL1 and ZLE. Period. Full stop.

Now it is time to vacate my own armchair



PS FYI: No M2 of any kind (and i have met a few), nor no Supra (clearly no surprise here) has ever passed me yet, regardless of tires, or road course venue.

NB The only new, stock Bimmer, which has been equal to my car (same top run group, 2 different venues) has been an M3 CS (2 years ago). A nice car, but for its price, i could buy 2 of my cars plus a decent small SUV.

[JamesNoBrakes]

The M2C is a serious driver's car. It benefits from the massive area below the curve with it's flat torque curve, which is significantly better than ours. It's putting a little more power to the rear wheels, but the chassis isn't quite as good as the Camaro. That doesn't matter as much for autocross, where nimbleness, how fast the turn-in is and acceleration count the most. When the Camaro is going for those high speed turns, few cars can keep up and it just keeps putting distance on them that they can't make up in the straights, but again, autocross is a totally different monster. It's about properly and very quickly loading and unloading the chassis to get the fastest time around a short course. Cars like the miata absolutely destroy it. I considered the M2, but the SS1LE was a better driver's car with better handling. The M2C addressed many of the M2s shortcomings, but the 1LE still has the edge on big courses. It's got the rubber/tires to put the power down and the chassis tuning to take maximum advantage of it...on a big course. I autocross my 1LE and it doesn't suck, but a quick shifting DCT car like the M2C would be better. The 1LE really starts picking up speed when we have a bigger track. Last time we put an oval in the course and were able to get up to some pretty fast speeds, my standings were much better with the bigger course, compared to when we do a small one.