Cadillac Reveals 2020 CT4-V and CT5-V

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

These cars, while less powerful, are Cadillacs. They are going to cost more than an SS Camaro, so there is no way these cars are going to attract would be Camaro buyers in terms of pricing.

Those that want a cheap V8, now can get one, with the Camaro LT1 package.

I fully understand that. Not too many people are going to be cross-shopping a Camaro and a 4-door Cadillac. What I am saying, is that people that could not afford a ~$70k ATS-V or ~$85k CTS-V can possibly step into one of these at a substantial savings and still get a performance-oriented sedan. Cadillac is going to bring in more customers with their "Two-Stage V" approach. BMW, Benz and Audi all do it. Widen your customer base...

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

There are. Mark Reuss was hounded with questions after the reveal yesterday and he confirmed there's more on the way, then supposedly asked journalists what they thought about the name "Blackwing."

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

The CT4-V's engine is the full size truck 4 cylinder.



Oh lordy.

I DID NOT see that coming.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I DID NOT see that coming.

Yeah, especially as they went on and on about it being a truck engine.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I agree it's dumb, but this isn't a precedent started by Cadillac. Mercedes has been slapping AMG badges on anything sporty for a few years now. Same with BMW and the M badge.


Unfortunately the luxury world is a lot of monkey see monkey do, for better or worse.

In my opinion, that is the major problem with Cadillac. Their business plan is to copy what the Germans are doing.

And I don’t get the obsession with the Blackwing. It’s a decent engine but it’s not earth shattering. It’s basically a more complex LT4 but down 100 horsepower.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I fully understand that. Not too many people are going to be cross-shopping a Camaro and a 4-door Cadillac. What I am saying, is that people that could not afford a ~$70k ATS-V or ~$85k CTS-V can possibly step into one of these at a substantial savings and still get a performance-oriented sedan. Cadillac is going to bring in more customers with their "Two-Stage V" approach. BMW, Benz and Audi all do it. Widen your customer base...

But they already had a '2 Stage V' system: V & Vsport. Vsport was for those that wanted a bit more performance for a little more money but nothing too crazy. Same as BMW with M & Msport. Lexus with F & Fsport. Now they've putting their V's into the Vsport role ... and supposedly creating a new 'top tier' performance level to replace what were the previous V cars.



Its dumb.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

But they already had a '2 Stage V' system: V & Vsport. Vsport was for those that wanted a bit more performance for a little more money but nothing too crazy. Same as BMW with M & Msport. Lexus with F & Fsport. Now they've putting their V's into the Vsport role ... and supposedly creating a new 'top tier' performance level to replace what were the previous V cars.



Its dumb.

Eh, it's subjective.

I understand that Cadillac has put the V-Series at the apex of their performance department for ~15 years. I'll hold my opinion until I hear what they're going to call these new machines. If they're going the route of knocking the V's down a peg, these new top-dogs better have a name that grabs people's attention.

[Martinjlm]

It seems as though the idea of Blackwing being slotted above V-Series makes sense. The problem is that for people who know what V-Series has been positioned to be, watering down the V-Series names BEFORE introducing the Blackwing on top of it is at best confusing and at worst just plain dumb. Cadillac will recover whenever they eventually drop the other shoe. But until then, people who appreciate V-Series will be left to scratch our heads.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It seems as though the idea of Blackwing being slotted above V-Series makes sense. The problem is that for people who know what V-Series has been positioned to be, watering down the V-Series names BEFORE introducing the Blackwing on top of it is at best confusing and at worst just plain dumb. Cadillac will recover whenever they eventually drop the other shoe. But until then, people who appreciate V-Series will be left to scratch our heads.

I agree. People have been hyped to see this unveil for weeks, only to witness the "V" moniker being relegated to mid-grade status and the new top-tier models being a mystery. IMHO, it would have been better to roll them out together, but GM rarely plays that way.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

Eh, it's subjective.

I understand that Cadillac has put the V-Series at the apex of their performance department for ~15 years. I'll hold my opinion until I hear what they're going to call these new machines. If they're going the route of knocking the V's down a peg, these new top-dogs better have a name that grabs people's attention.

Its dumb because they're throwing away more than a decade of work that they put into branding the V-series just to start again with some other name. They already had something that accomplishes exactly what they wanted to do. There was no need to change the naming scheme of their performance line at all.



A 'better' name for the top tier of performance isn't going to a help anything. How many people could possibly exist that would never buy a 550 hp twin turbo V8 CT5-V at say 80 grand buuuut will purchase an $80k 550 hp twin turbo V8 CT5-V+ or Blackwing or Wreath or whatever name they tack onto the end of the exact same car? Compare that to the number of people that will walk away in frustration as some salesman tries to explain that, no, the CT5-V isn't supposed to replace the CTS-V they're trying to trade in. Instead, they have try the CT5-????. If the first number is smaller than the second, its a dumb move.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its dumb because they're throwing away more than a decade of work that they put into branding the V-series just to start again with some other name. They already had something that accomplishes exactly what they wanted to do. There was no need to change the naming scheme of their performance line at all.



A 'better' name for the top tier of performance isn't going to a help anything. How many people could possibly exist that would never buy a 550 hp twin turbo V8 CT5-V at say 80 grand buuuut will purchase an $80k 550 hp twin turbo V8 CT5-V+ or Blackwing or Wreath or whatever name they tack onto the end of the exact same car? Compare that to the number of people that will walk away in frustration as some salesman tries to explain that, no, the CT5-V isn't supposed to replace the CTS-V they're trying to trade in. Instead, they have try the CT5-????. If the first number is smaller than the second, its a dumb move.

I envision you sitting at your computer, punching the monitor, kicking furniture and having to take a break, only to pace around your house while muttering under your breath, "Cadillac...Blackwing...V-Series...Performance...Steve Carlisle...".

I suggest you write a scathing letter to Mary Barra ASAP and voice your frustration.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I envision you sitting at your computer, punching the monitor, kicking furniture and having to take a break, only to pace around your house while muttering under your breath, "Cadillac...Blackwing...V-Series...Performance...Steve Carlisle...".

I suggest you write a scathing letter to Mary Barra ASAP and voice your frustration.

Nope. Very even headed actually. It doesn't anger me, it confuses me. There was no reason that I'm aware of to change things, yet they decided to anyway. In the process, they've created extra work for their marketing and dealer teams. More work for no identifiable payoff is dumb.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Nope. Very even headed actually. It doesn't anger me, it confuses me. There was no reason that I'm aware of to change things, yet they decided to anyway. In the process, they've created extra work for their marketing and dealer teams. More work for no identifiable payoff is dumb.

YEP

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Nope. Very even headed actually. It doesn't anger me, it confuses me. There was no reason that I'm aware of to change things, yet they decided to anyway. In the process, they've created extra work for their marketing and dealer teams. More work for no identifiable payoff is dumb.

Yeah.


This is one of those things where I get it, but I'm annoyed by it.