Is conventional Wax about to be phased out?

[BAD DAB]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

If anything concerning detailing is about to be "phased out", it would be conventional detailing clay.

Modern alternatives make the process easier and much less time consuming.

I read the attachment for the PRO vs. DIY application of a coating, and there are a lot of inaccurate statements. You can tell the person who wrote this article has never applied a ceramic coating before.

I haven't done a ton of them, only a dozen, but the newer coatings are so much easier to use versus the older ones.
The newer spray on SI02 products also provide the same ease of cleaning aspect, they just don't have the durability of a true coating, so need application more often.

$3000 for paint correction and a coating? I could buy every Rupes polishing machine needed for every area of the car, all the pads, compounds/polishes, and a high quality coating for less than 1/2 of that.

What are the alternatives to conventional clay bars?

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by BAD DAB

What are the alternatives to conventional clay bars?

I currently use the SM Arnold Speedy Prep Towel (Fine Grade).

Benefits vs standard clay.

No pressure needed to remove bonded contaminates, just glide the towel across the surface. When contaminates are removed, towel will glide smooth across surface. You can also hear when contaminates are present.

No kneading. Fold it in 1/4th's, after you have used a side on a couple panels switch to a fresh side.

You don't throw it away if you drop it. Just rinse it in warm water for 60-90 seconds, and it's ready to go again.

Durability. Lasts up to 100 uses. I have over 60 uses on mine, and it still performs as new.

Cuts time to clay in 1/2 or less vs. standard clay.


There are many of these on the market now, just about every detailing company sells one. So if you like a particular brand, use them. They have them in sponges, towels, and mitts. Just be sure to get fine grade, as medium will cause marring on clear coat.

The SM Arnold also has a protective coating on it that must be removed before the first use. To do this you use it on the glass first. It's ok to use a little pressure on the glass with it.

[BAD DAB]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I currently use the SM Arnold Speedy Prep Towel (Fine Grade).

Benefits vs standard clay.

No pressure needed to remove bonded contaminates, just glide the towel across the surface. When contaminates are removed, towel will glide smooth across surface. You can also hear when contaminates are present.

No kneading. Fold it in 1/4th's, after you have used a side on a couple panels switch to a fresh side.

You don't throw it away if you drop it. Just rinse it in warm water for 60-90 seconds, and it's ready to go again.

Durability. Lasts up to 100 uses. I have over 60 uses on mine, and it still performs as new.

Cuts time to clay in 1/2 or less vs. standard clay.


There are many of these on the market now, just about every detailing company sells one. So if you like a particular brand, use them. They have them in sponges, towels, and mitts. Just be sure to get fine grade, as medium will cause marring on clear coat.

The SM Arnold also has a protective coating on it that must be removed before the first use. To do this you use it on the glass first. It's ok to use a little pressure on the glass with it.

Thanks..........great information. Definitely will save time.

[cclaxton]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

If anything concerning detailing is about to be "phased out", it would be conventional detailing clay.

Modern alternatives make the process easier and much less time consuming.

I read the attachment for the PRO vs. DIY application of a coating, and there are a lot of inaccurate statements. You can tell the person who wrote this article has never applied a ceramic coating before.

I haven't done a ton of them, only a dozen, but the newer coatings are so much easier to use versus the older ones.
The newer spray on SI02 products also provide the same ease of cleaning aspect, they just don't have the durability of a true coating, so need application more often.

$3000 for paint correction and a coating? I could buy every Rupes polishing machine needed for every area of the car, all the pads, compounds/polishes, and a high quality coating for less than 1/2 of that.

Thanks for the review. There seems to be a lot of hype on the net. See my other thread...now painting the whole car. He wants an additional $1000 to do lifetime ceramic (with yearly repeat at $250/yr). He claims it will improve the wet look. I already am spending $5500 for the paint job, so I am thinking a DIY ceramic coating after he finishes. Your recommendations on DIY brands?
Thanks
Cody

[hrpiii]

Originally Posted by cclaxton

Thanks for the review. There seems to be a lot of hype on the net. See my other thread...now painting the whole car. He wants an additional $1000 to do lifetime ceramic (with yearly repeat at $250/yr). He claims it will improve the wet look. I already am spending $5500 for the paint job, so I am thinking a DIY ceramic coating after he finishes. Your recommendations on DIY brands?
Thanks
Cody

Several great Ceramic coatings out there. I have SB3 on my new ZR2 truck, loving it so far. My friend is a professional detailer and this is what he prefers. He has also used Adams Ceramic. What the hell is a Lifetime Ceramic Coating that needs a Yearly Repeat/Refresh? I'm sorry, but I would have to laugh out loud at his ass trying to explain that one. And if he does the paint right, and removes all the orange peel, there should be no prep of the paint needed. Shouldn't have any swirls or light scratches to prep for the ceramic coating... Tell him no thanks on the ceramic and be happy with the paint job.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by cclaxton

Thanks for the review. There seems to be a lot of hype on the net. See my other thread...now painting the whole car. He wants an additional $1000 to do lifetime ceramic (with yearly repeat at $250/yr). He claims it will improve the wet look. I already am spending $5500 for the paint job, so I am thinking a DIY ceramic coating after he finishes. Your recommendations on DIY brands?
Thanks
Cody

From looking at the pictures in your thread, the "ghosting" shown is typical when stickers have been removed.

I don't know what they used to remove them, but I know what they didn't use. Rapid-Tac Rapid remover. The only thing I use anymore for adhesive removal. How do I know this? All of the marring around the area of the ghosting.

That ghosting could have been removed with compound. I've used Megs D300 on late model cards that had the same type of ghosting with water based factory paint and haven't came across one that I couldn't remove.

Body shops typically don't finish down a paint job after it's done. They use rotary machines to de-nib, and level high spots in the clear coat. Typically holograms, and light swirls will still remain.

Paint correction and polishing will be needed. This can be done before the paint is fully cured.

Mentioned earlier was removal of orange peel. Your not going to get this from a body shop. This is very time consuming and labor intensive to do. An orange peel free paint job is going to cost you closer to $20k.

The only manufacturer that does this from the factory is Rolls Royce (to my knowledge). The cost of the paint job for a Rolls is $20k plus, depending on the base coat you choose.

The plus about body shop clear is that it is thicker, so if you want to remove enough of the clear to level the orange peel in it, you can without overly thinning out the clear coat. But you still may have orange peel in the base coat.

While body shop paint will be thicker than factory paint, it will also be softer. So removing defects will be easier, but finishing is tougher.

When cars are painted at factories they have no electrical equipment installed yet, so they can be ran through ovens @ about 500* F to bake the paint on.
If you did that with a car that already has the electronics installed, the wires would melt.
Body shops typically use heat guns to assist drying, usually around 200* F or less. This is why body shop paint is softer.


The new paint still needs time to cure.

Before a coating can be applied, or any type of paint protection for that matter, the paint must be fully cured. This varies by manufacturer, but the norm is 90 days.

If you want to DIY a ceramic coating, and you're doing this for the first time, I'd recommend either...…..

Optimum Gloss Coat (2 yrs) It self levels to make removing excess really easy.

Adams New UV Ceramic (5yrs) The kit comes with a UV light to make high spots and missed areas easy to find. Typically, 5 year coatings have been more difficult to apply/remove, but Adams has made the process easy for anyone to do.

[redcoats1976]

ive started using a product called produxa which is a polymer polish and sealant.you have to first strip the wax and claybar the whole car,which i then rewashed and dried and applied the produxa,rub it in a circular motion and its done.very hydrophobic and the dirt doesnt seem to cling to the paint like it used to.supposed the last a year but im going to put another coat on before summer gets here.

[cclaxton]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

From looking at the pictures in your thread, the "ghosting" shown is typical when stickers have been removed.

I don't know what they used to remove them, but I know what they didn't use. Rapid-Tac Rapid remover. The only thing I use anymore for adhesive removal. How do I know this? All of the marring around the area of the ghosting.

That ghosting could have been removed with compound. I've used Megs D300 on late model cards that had the same type of ghosting with water based factory paint and haven't came across one that I couldn't remove.

Body shops typically don't finish down a paint job after it's done. They use rotary machines to de-nib, and level high spots in the clear coat. Typically holograms, and light swirls will still remain.

Paint correction and polishing will be needed. This can be done before the paint is fully cured.

Mentioned earlier was removal of orange peel. Your not going to get this from a body shop. This is very time consuming and labor intensive to do. An orange peel free paint job is going to cost you closer to $20k.

The only manufacturer that does this from the factory is Rolls Royce (to my knowledge). The cost of the paint job for a Rolls is $20k plus, depending on the base coat you choose.

The plus about body shop clear is that it is thicker, so if you want to remove enough of the clear to level the orange peel in it, you can without overly thinning out the clear coat. But you still may have orange peel in the base coat.

While body shop paint will be thicker than factory paint, it will also be softer. So removing defects will be easier, but finishing is tougher.

When cars are painted at factories they have no electrical equipment installed yet, so they can be ran through ovens @ about 500* F to bake the paint on.
If you did that with a car that already has the electronics installed, the wires would melt.
Body shops typically use heat guns to assist drying, usually around 200* F or less. This is why body shop paint is softer.


The new paint still needs time to cure.

Before a coating can be applied, or any type of paint protection for that matter, the paint must be fully cured. This varies by manufacturer, but the norm is 90 days.

If you want to DIY a ceramic coating, and you're doing this for the first time, I'd recommend either...…..

Optimum Gloss Coat (2 yrs) It self levels to make removing excess really easy.

Adams New UV Ceramic (5yrs) The kit comes with a UV light to make high spots and missed areas easy to find. Typically, 5 year coatings have been more difficult to apply/remove, but Adams has made the process easy for anyone to do.

Thanks for the extensive reply. This guy seemed to know what he was doing trying to remove the ghosting. He said he thought he could do it. I am not sure if he used a product to remove them, but I know he used a heat gun or blow dryer.

There were other problems: The front bumper was painted a different shade of red from the rest of the car. Also, at least two other panels had been painted including the roof. I guess I could have driven it around with all those flaws, but I think I will be happier once I have a like-new paint job on it. Plus he will fix any little dimples and defects.

Thanks for the information on the paint drying and waiting for it to cure. I am considering the CarPro CQuartz Ceramic Coating for application to the car. Any experience with that one?

Thanks,
Cody

[BRZN]

Here's how I'll assume you can be offered a Lifetime Ceramic Coating.

First a 9H Ceramic Coating is applied to the cured, corrected, and properly cleaned/prepped surface. You should get 1-3 years from the coating alone.

Now, to maintain the coating, the vehicle is taken back yearly, thoroughly cleaned and decontaminated, possibly some light paint correction, surface is prepped again and a lighter coating is applied, something like Adam's Ceramic Spray Coating. This lighter product adds a bit of the Ceramic back to the original Coating extending its life.

Usually there will be a warranty you need to sign, and if you don't return for the yearly follow up, the warranty is void.

I've been doing this process since Adam's has come out with his full line of Ceramic products. My personal vehicles are all 9H Ceramic Coated, washed with Adam's Wash & Coat, wiped down with Adam's Ceramic Waterless Wash, and the Ceramic Coating has the Ceramic Boost applied as a sealant every couple of months to bring back the hydrophobic properties. As of late I've been using the newly released CS3 Adam offers after a wash. Once or twice a year I'll apply the Ceramic Spray Coating to the finish to bring the Coating back to an as applied protection.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by cclaxton

Thanks for the extensive reply. This guy seemed to know what he was doing trying to remove the ghosting. He said he thought he could do it. I am not sure if he used a product to remove them, but I know he used a heat gun or blow dryer.

There were other problems: The front bumper was painted a different shade of red from the rest of the car. Also, at least two other panels had been painted including the roof. I guess I could have driven it around with all those flaws, but I think I will be happier once I have a like-new paint job on it. Plus he will fix any little dimples and defects.

Thanks for the information on the paint drying and waiting for it to cure. I am considering the CarPro CQuartz Ceramic Coating for application to the car. Any experience with that one?

Thanks,
Cody

Heat is used to remove the emblem itself. Adhesive residue will always be left behind. Rapid Tac Rapid Remover gets rid of it easier, faster, and causes less marring while doing so.

The ghosting that remains can only be removed by using an abrasive. Usually one as pronounced as what was on your car requires compound, then finishing polish to maximize gloss. Occasionally only finishing polish is needed.

I am sure it could have been removed with Megs D300, but being that you have areas that were repainted, that do not match, an entire repaint is needed. It not surprising that this happened as GM has 6 different variations of Victory Red.

Your still going to need a polisher, to go over the paint with compound and polish after it is painted. Or take it to a professional detailer to get it done. I've never seen a body shop paint job, no matter how well done, that finished the paint down defect free.

Yes, I've done a few cars with CQuartz, and CQuartz UK. Both of these are 2 year coatings, The CQUK is for applications in temperatures below 60*F.

These are a little more difficult to apply in that you will have to look at the paint from several angles after wiping excess to ensure no high spots are left, and master the "sweet spot" for the amount of time to leave it on before you remove the excess.

But once you get the hang of it, it's not too difficult. But they aren't as easy as Optimum Gloss Coat, or Adams New UV Ceramic.

Carpro makes some really fantastic products though, and Corey Carruth who runs Carpro USA in Florida is honest, and provides excellent customer service.