No replacement for displacement....oh...wait...

Martinjlm · 06-07-2019, 08:35 AM

Mercedes AMG has just upped the ante, replacing their 2.0T 382 hp engine with a 416 hp version. That's just 10 under what the Gen 5 Camaro SS was rated. So, roughly 4.2L of displacement was replaced.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ore-horsepower

FenwickHockey65 · 06-07-2019, 08:42 AM

Jesus that's insanely power dense.

snizzle · 06-07-2019, 08:44 AM

I'd like to hear it. There is still no replacement in that respect.

KMPrenger · 06-07-2019, 08:55 AM

That's impressive for an OEM engine. Even more impressive if it is actually a long term reliable engine.

The torque is even pretty decent at 370 with most of it coming on at 2,000 rpm as the article states. That's probably still a good 40+ tq under what an American SOHC V8 making 416 HP would do in torque as typically the tq ends up even or higher than HP. DOHC, such as the Coyote...then sure, its about the same hp to tq ratio.

No replacement for displacement argument is kind of silly now days. I mean in one hand...sure there is a replacement, and it's called forced induction. Want 300 or 400 HP or more without a V8? Easy.

Then again, some would say its not a fair comparison. Put a turbo on a V8 and then see what kind of power you get.

But if good ole V8 music is your thing...yeah there is no replacement.

Bhobbs · 06-07-2019, 10:24 AM

There is no replacement for displacement. Anything done to that 4 banger could be done to a bigger engine and make even more power.

ChibiBlackSheep · 06-07-2019, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

There is no replacement for displacement. Anything done to that 4 banger could be done to a bigger engine and make even more power.

Seriously. AMG is fine-tuning this engine. They are getting every ounce of power out of it.

For a few bolt-ons you can take that boring ol' v8 up 100HP. For a little bit of boost you can easily double the output. And there would STILL be more up on the table.

90503 · 06-07-2019, 11:05 AM

This must have GM really scratching their heads. Cadillac's newest offering is a twin-turbo V-6 with an amazing 300 or so hp. The technology used to underpower the displacement of a V-6, add twin turbos and produce a measly 300+ hp must be a GM exclusive trade secret that evades Mercedes.

xc_SS/RS · 06-07-2019, 11:14 AM

30 pounds of boost is a lotta boost. Wonder how long it'll last on the street

ChibiBlackSheep · 06-07-2019, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90503

This must have GM really scratching their heads. Cadillac's newest offering is a twin-turbo V-6 with an amazing 300 or so hp. The technology used to underpower the displacement of a V-6, add twin turbos and produce a measly 300+ hp must be a GM exclusive trade secret that evades Mercedes.

Which is funny, since the LF3 had what 420?

Don't know why they didn't just keep that one.

Also, isn't the new Caddy doing a turbo 2.7L 4-cyl?

90503 · 06-07-2019, 11:38 AM

CT5 standard 2.0 TT-4 ?????HP

CT5 optional 3.0 TT-V6 335 hp

CT5-V 3.0 TT V-6 355 hp

CT4-V 2.7 TT-4 320 hp

JamesNoBrakes · 06-07-2019, 01:36 PM

These concepts aren't often noted for their exceptional reliability and ease of manufacture/servicing. They often have complex structures that do not lend themselves well to more practical considerations. It's impressive for sure. Glad to see them pushing the frontiers. Ultimately electric assist will take over soon and provide all the "super/turbo"-charging that one needs.

DenverTaco07 · 06-07-2019, 02:02 PM

Impressive for sure.

If the motor is in a lot of boost all the time, say like if any of us drove it, then the point of having a 2 liter motor (fuel efficiency) has gotta be nearly lost completely.

some engineer tell me i'm wrong.

snizzle · 06-07-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Impressive for sure.

If the motor is in a lot of boost all the time, say like if any of us drove it, then the point of having a 2 liter motor (fuel efficiency) has gotta be nearly lost completely.

some engineer tell me i'm wrong.

Yeah, like the EcoBoost. Can't have both the Eco and the Boost.

crysalis_01 · 06-07-2019, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

There is no replacement for displacement. Anything done to that 4 banger could be done to a bigger engine and make even more power.

Well, technically you're simply using boost, on said hypothetical V8, to replace displacement of an even larger engine.

Boost is literally allowing the processing of air and fuel that would not be present via atmo alone. Making a 2.0L process the air/fuel of a 4.0L is no different than making a 4.0L process the air/fuel atmo would provide to a 8.0L engine.

So, the statement that "Yeah, well, I can boost the bigger engine and make even more power." In fact further verifies that boost is a functional replacement for added displacement.

06-07-2019, 08:35 AM	#1
Martinjlm Retired from GM Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Detroit Posts: 5,228	No replacement for displacement....oh...wait... Mercedes AMG has just upped the ante, replacing their 2.0T 382 hp engine with a 416 hp version. That's just 10 under what the Gen 5 Camaro SS was rated. So, roughly 4.2L of displacement was replaced. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...ore-horsepower __________________ 2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE A8 \| MRC \| NPP \| Nav \| HUD \| GM Performance CAI \| Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB \| Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers \| FlexFuel Tune \| Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam \| Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight \| Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties \| 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray \| Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays \| Novistretch bra and mirror covers \| Tow hitch for bicycle rack \|

06-07-2019, 08:42 AM	#2
FenwickHockey65 General Motors Aficionado Drives: 2023 GMC Canyon, 2020 Colorado Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 37,371 View My Garage	Jesus that's insanely power dense. __________________ 2023 GMC Canyon Elevation 2020 Chevrolet Colorado W/T Extended Cab (State-issued)

06-07-2019, 08:44 AM	#3
snizzle Recalled user Drives: '12 Camaro SS, '18 Colorado Z71 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,415	I'd like to hear it. There is still no replacement in that respect. __________________ 2012 2SS 45th AE LS3 M6 Borla ATAK Catback Kooks Stepped LT Headers CAI Intake Hexvents VMAX CNC Ported Throttle Body RX Catch Can Hurst Short Throw Shifter Pfadt ZL-Spec Stage 3 Suspension Forgestar F14 Tuned by Frost

06-07-2019, 08:55 AM	#4
KMPrenger Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jefferson City, Missouri Posts: 13,943	That's impressive for an OEM engine. Even more impressive if it is actually a long term reliable engine. The torque is even pretty decent at 370 with most of it coming on at 2,000 rpm as the article states. That's probably still a good 40+ tq under what an American SOHC V8 making 416 HP would do in torque as typically the tq ends up even or higher than HP. DOHC, such as the Coyote...then sure, its about the same hp to tq ratio. No replacement for displacement argument is kind of silly now days. I mean in one hand...sure there is a replacement, and it's called forced induction. Want 300 or 400 HP or more without a V8? Easy. Then again, some would say its not a fair comparison. Put a turbo on a V8 and then see what kind of power you get. But if good ole V8 music is your thing...yeah there is no replacement. __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties 2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)

06-07-2019, 10:24 AM	#5
Bhobbs Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Chino, CA Posts: 6,989	There is no replacement for displacement. Anything done to that 4 banger could be done to a bigger engine and make even more power. __________________

06-07-2019, 11:05 AM	#7
90503 Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Torrance Posts: 14,425	This must have GM really scratching their heads. Cadillac's newest offering is a twin-turbo V-6 with an amazing 300 or so hp. The technology used to underpower the displacement of a V-6, add twin turbos and produce a measly 300+ hp must be a GM exclusive trade secret that evades Mercedes.

06-07-2019, 11:14 AM	#8
xc_SS/RS Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: somewhere in MD Posts: 4,883	30 pounds of boost is a lotta boost. Wonder how long it'll last on the street __________________ 2010 2SS/RS Z/28 intake, NW, FAST 102, speed engineering LT's, some exhaust, ATI -10% pulley, GM flex fuel injectors, DSX flex fuel sensor, MGW shifter, HP Tuners, some suspension work, stickers and a little weight loss. 12.63 @113.53

06-07-2019, 11:38 AM	#10
90503 Drives: 2011 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Torrance Posts: 14,425	CT5 standard 2.0 TT-4 ?????HP CT5 optional 3.0 TT-V6 335 hp CT5-V 3.0 TT V-6 355 hp CT4-V 2.7 TT-4 320 hp

06-07-2019, 01:36 PM	#11
JamesNoBrakes Drives: 2SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: AK Posts: 2,301	These concepts aren't often noted for their exceptional reliability and ease of manufacture/servicing. They often have complex structures that do not lend themselves well to more practical considerations. It's impressive for sure. Glad to see them pushing the frontiers. Ultimately electric assist will take over soon and provide all the "super/turbo"-charging that one needs. __________________ Everything happens for a reason, except when it doesn't, but even then, you can, in hindsight, fabricate a reason that satisfies your belief system. 2018 2SS 1LE 2023 Colorado ZR2 2022 Stinger GT-line AWD

06-07-2019, 02:02 PM	#12
DenverTaco07 Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2017 Volt, 2013 Pilot Join Date: May 2014 Location: Colorado Posts: 4,274	Impressive for sure. If the motor is in a lot of boost all the time, say like if any of us drove it, then the point of having a 2 liter motor (fuel efficiency) has gotta be nearly lost completely. some engineer tell me i'm wrong. __________________ 2017 SS 1LE \| HBM \| Vortech V3-Si supercharger (620RWHP and 575ft lbs) \| PDR \| Black Bowties \| Illuminated Front Black Bowtie \| Illuminated Door Sills \| Smoked Tails \| vented seats mod