Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

So who is the target market for this vehicle? It's still just a VERY expensive electric version of the CRV/RAV4.

Genesis is the Hyundai Kia luxury brand. Their competitors will be Mercedes -Benz, Audi, Cadillac, Lexus. So consider the similar sized / segment vehicles from those makes. In the first pic it is parked between an Audi Q5 and an Audi Q8. ICE Q5 ranges high $50s to high $60s. Audi eTron Q4 (smaller class than GV60) costs about $55k. Mercedes-Benz GLC is $54 - 68k. Their EV in this segment is a couple years off, so no pricing there yet. At $69k, GV60 is priced right with ICE vehicles in the same class.

CR-V / RAV4 are more mainstream products. The mainstream Hyundai and Kia equivalents would be Hyundai Ioniq 5 ($41k) and Kia EV6 ($48.7k). Later this year GM will introduce Equinox EV into this same competitive set. It will start at right around $30k. Honda CR-V ranges $31 - 34k. RAV4 ranges $28 - 40k.

[Windycity]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

What's really ironic is the people who trumpet how great these pieces of garbage are don't really care about driving fast to begin with, they just want something to get them from point A to B as quickly as possible, yet they brag about how fast they are.

the vast majority of drivers could car less about being the fastest car around

The population of car guys like ourselves are falling fast. Most people don’t care about car culture anymore

When I was young there were hot rods and cool cars everywhere. Now I barely see anything anymore


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[90503]

This one still has some of the Tesla-vibe front end look...But the styling is perhaps starting to improve. Still screams "EV", which is fine...They don't have to try and look like they aren't EVs...but the sameness still is not very exciting...

[FarmerFran]

@Wyzz Kydd I asume your camaro is a M6?

[mickss]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Range and charge time is still an issue, for me.

True, as things stand now EV`s range and time to charge are not too impressive but you can bet there are company research and development depts. that make batteries and fast chargers trying to make improvements to range and charge times. The first internal combustion engines were not too impressive compared to today`s ICE. Most new technologies start out as primitive but if someone finds a use for that tech then eventually it will evolve and improve. The first "horseless carriage" is now today`s super cars or the Wright Flyer is now todays supersonic passenger jet.

Human ingenuity usually finds a way to improve or solve a problem and someday in the distance future ICE or EV`s may be replaced by some yet unknown power source!

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

@Wyzz Kydd I asume your camaro is a M6?

Yep!

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Yep!

LOL< I figured, no way in hell he makes those comments and drives and auto

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

LOL< I figured, no way in hell he makes those comments and drives and auto

It's also a nice antitheft device!

To be fair I think there are legitimate uses for EVs, but the idea of them becoming the 'new' sports cars just doesn't sit right with me. People movers sure, but a car that an enthusiast would enjoy, no way.

I also think the people who are pushing EVs are pretty disingenuous about their strengths and weaknesses and the factors that are contributing to EVs being adopted.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think a vehicle like this is really not intended for quarter-miling and definitely not for tracking. That stuff will come later. The ridiculous acceleration is more of an ”oh, by the way” than it is a reason for being. Sorta like if my SRX could rip off 4 second 0-60 runs. It can’t, but that’s not why I own it. If I had something like this to replace the SRX (currently looking towards a Blazer EV SS) it would be just fine. It would not be the replacement for either of my weekend fun cars. But it would make everyday errand running a ton more fun.

The problem is every random person and EV owner thinks any EV (that's not a Bolt or Leaf) has supercar acceleration because of the AWD and instant torque. I've talked to a lot of people that think essentially any Tesla will beat cars like Mustang GTs and Camaro SSs (sure, some of them win 0-60, but only a few can actually beat those cars from a roll), and think they are as fast as ZL1s and other near supercars.

It seems they all have this reputation thanks to the P85D/P100D and similar trims from Tesla that rocket to 60 mph then die off after 80+.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Nope. Didn’t have it long enough and had to share it with others in the office. The specs call for 18 minutes to go from 10% to 80% at 350 kW. It was fairly cold when I was driving it. High teens. The one screen shows range with and without HVAC engaged. I thought that was a nice touch.

350 kW for 18 minutes should be almost two times a 10-80% added charge.
Has anyone covering EV asked what accounts for that? Are there procedural or conditioning delays or a slow ramp up and down in charging power? How efficient is the charging?

I still think WRX manual fits better for enthusiast awd.
0-60 headline EVs just means there needs to be a big whipple muscle sedan with awd, e-diffs, and (invent) an e-centrifugal to put the power down on launch.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by genxer

350 kW for 18 minutes should be almost two times a 10-80% added charge.
Has anyone covering EV asked what accounts for that? Are there procedural or conditioning delays or a slow ramp up and down in charging power? How efficient is the charging?

I still think WRX manual fits better for enthusiast awd.
0-60 headline EVs just means there needs to be a big whipple muscle sedan with awd, e-diffs, and (invent) an e-centrifugal to put the power down on launch.

I agree. A hybrid supercharged V8 would be a blast to drive. The best of both worlds.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by genxer

350 kW for 18 minutes should be almost two times a 10-80% added charge.
Has anyone covering EV asked what accounts for that? Are there procedural or conditioning delays or a slow ramp up and down in charging power? How efficient is the charging?

I still think WRX manual fits better for enthusiast awd.
0-60 headline EVs just means there needs to be a big whipple muscle sedan with awd, e-diffs, and (invent) an e-centrifugal to put the power down on launch.

Rate of charge slows as battery gets to higher SOC. A battery can accept higher rate of charge at a lower state of charge. Lower higher. It’s why it’s generally recommended to don’t go above 80% at fast chargers since charge rate falls off greatly.

[Wyzz Kydd]

I made the Atlanta to Daphne AL run this week in just over 4 hours with a quick 5 minute gas/bathroom break. Dusted off a guy in a Panamera S on the way. First time in 6 years a Porsche has ever tried to get froggy with me. He gave me a look then jumped on it and cut me off, so I gave him a look at my rear end.

Reminded me why I love this car so much.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The problem is every random person and EV owner thinks any EV (that's not a Bolt or Leaf) has supercar acceleration because of the AWD and instant torque. I've talked to a lot of people that think essentially any Tesla will beat cars like Mustang GTs and Camaro SSs (sure, some of them win 0-60, but only a few can actually beat those cars from a roll), and think they are as fast as ZL1s and other near supercars.

It seems they all have this reputation thanks to the P85D/P100D and similar trims from Tesla that rocket to 60 mph then die off after 80+.

True. But for people who are not enthusiasts I think that wears off in a week. Then they’re about the business of getting as much range as possible. And that means NOT stomping the go-pedal at every opportunity. There’s a ton of EVs in my area. Ford HQ is literally just down the road from me and Mach E is commonplace. So are Tesla. I never see them stoplight launch. Challengers? A dozen times a day. Even V6. Teslas and Mach E? Never seen it. When I launched the GV60 in Boost mode I bet everyone at the intersection was like “what a clown”. They might not have been wrong. On one hand, I was doing a test. On the other hand “Officer, I was just doing a specs test on a press vehicle” has never gotten anyone out of a ticket.

And don’t sleep on Bolt. It launches quite well. Levels off fast, but it does launch hot if you want it to. Most people who buy a Bolt don’t know what a ZL1 is and could care less that their Bolt may or may not be able to trip it at the line.