Electric Vehicles

[Wyzz Kydd]

New study showing that owners of midsize ICE vehicles are now paying less per mile than owners of midsize EVs.

"In this market segment, fueling ICE vehicles was more economical than comparable EVs in the 4th quarter, regardless of charging primarily at home or commercially."

It seems when efforts to inflate the cost of gas fail and prices are closer to what would prevail in a free market, the only EVs that are more efficient are the luxury EVs. Why am I not surprised?

https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.co...-in-late-2022/

[Martinjlm]

The analysis includes an hourly rate for the person pumping gas or using a charging station. It also includes amortizing the cost of home charging equipment on a per mile basis instead of including it in the acquisition cost of the vehicle the way the rest of the world does in analyzing cost. And it never details what they assume the cost of a charging station to be. It also assumes people who charge at home also charge 25% of the time at charging stations where they have to pay. The real percentage is low single digits.

I’d rather not get into the validity of their “deadhead” miles. Too much to unpack there and it gets very geeky.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It also assumes people who charge at home also charge 25% of the time at charging stations where they have to pay. The real percentage is low single digits.

That's because so far it's largely affluent buyers buying a technological toy (w/detached housing + garages + 240v home chargers). What does the apartment renter parking on the street living on the 5th floor do? I don't know about your region but all they're building around me are planned communities or apartment buildings, stacking folks on top of each other. I don't see any chargers.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

That's because so far it's largely affluent buyers buying a technological toy (w/detached housing + garages + 240v home chargers). What does the apartment renter parking on the street living on the 5th floor do? I don't know about your region but all they're building around me are planned communities or apartment buildings, stacking folks on top of each other. I don't see any chargers.

It’s mainly single family home dwellers, whether they are affluent or not. The top selling EVs by a long shot are, in order

1. Tesla Model 3
2. Tesla Model Y
3. Ford Mustang Mach E

All of them have models that cost less than a Camaro SS. So unless we consider Camaro SS a car only purchased by affluent buyers, I think we can retire the “EVs are only for rich people” mantra. You are absolutely correct though that people living in multi-dwelling locations are less apt to buy an EV. I literally just got off of a Teams meeting scoping a project for a client that wants to understand more about when/where/cost for charging in multi-family dwelling locations. So my team will be studying that over the next several weeks.

[90503]

I find this whole issue that an EV should be no more than just "what you really need" a little unsettling. Build them to the max, I say. If the range, style, ability to charge, price isn't to your liking, then oh well....move on.

A case could be made that ICE vehicles of all types are over-built, under-used, over-priced, a crass indulgence of excess and wastefulness. Good! This EV era to me seems like at some point all we will be offered is what "someone else" thinks is best for our needs, (and of course "best for the planet") if we are deemed eligible to even own one at all.

The freedom offered by ICE vehicles will soon be gone. Replaced by "only what we need".

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by 90503

I find this whole issue that an EV should be no more than just "what you really need" a little unsettling. Build them to the max, I say. If the range, style, ability to charge, price isn't to your liking, then oh well....move on.

A case could be made that ICE vehicles of all types are over-built, under-used, over-priced, a crass indulgence of excess and wastefulness. Good! This EV era to me seems like at some point all we will be offered is what "someone else" thinks is best for our needs, (and of course "best for the planet") if we are deemed eligible to even own one at all.

The freedom offered by ICE vehicles will soon be gone. Replaced by "only what we need".

And that is exactly the point of the whole move to EVs

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The analysis includes an hourly rate for the person pumping gas or using a charging station. It also includes amortizing the cost of home charging equipment on a per mile basis instead of including it in the acquisition cost of the vehicle the way the rest of the world does in analyzing cost. And it never details what they assume the cost of a charging station to be. It also assumes people who charge at home also charge 25% of the time at charging stations where they have to pay. The real percentage is low single digits.

I’d rather not get into the validity of their “deadhead” miles. Too much to unpack there and it gets very geeky.

Where did you get your degree in economics?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Where did you get your degree in economics?

University of Michigan MBA. Same place as Patrick Anderson, the author of the report you linked to. Why do you ask?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

University of Michigan

Boooo.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

University of Michigan

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Boooo.

Rhymes with “Go Bluuuuuuue!!!

[90503]

Well, here's some economics for you...GM won't have to lower any EV prices like Tesla did to compete...all you need is to grease a few palms at the Treasury Department and let the gov't "classify" gm's models for you...lol

Still think the Tax Credit is just for you?...lol

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...ts-2023-02-03/

https://www.thestreet.com/technology...-big-ev-battle

[ChevyRules]

It was BS how if you bought a 5 seater Model Y it was classified as a car. But the 7 seater, it’s now a SUV. The Mach E I believe had a similar BS classification. Bought the RWD version, it’s a car. AWD it’s now an SUV.

[90503]

With the fed's gov't bureaucrats calling the shots and making the rules, I would expect nothing less than a massive fiasco, confusion, waste and corruption with fruitless results...

It's an integral part of the inevitable EV future...lol



..

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

It was BS how if you bought a 5 seater Model Y it was classified as a car. But the 7 seater, it’s now a SUV. The Mach E I believe had a similar BS classification. Bought the RWD version, it’s a car. AWD it’s now an SUV.

Strange negotiations between NHTSA and automotive lobbyists on the way to setting fuel economy regulations. The car companies want to push all SUVs and CUVs into the Truck CAFE fleet. NHTSA wants to put most CUVs and some SUVs in the car fleets. Automakers want as much in the Truck CAFE fleet as they can get because the targets are easier to achieve. The compromise is that there are a set of parameters to define what goes into Truck CAFE and what goes into the Car CAFE fleet.

To go into Truck CAFE it needs to

• have a tailgate (not a trunk)
• have either AWD or 3-row seating or both
• have a flat cargo floor
• have a certain ground clearance (I’m too lazy to look up that exact spec)
• have a particular minimum front and rear approach angle (if I’m too lazy to look up ground clearance, you know I’m not looking this one up)

There’s something else that I’m missing that makes 2WD Tahoe / Durango / Explorer Truck CAFE, regardless of drive configuration and passenger capacity.

So a 2WD Chevrolet Equinox is in the Car CAFE fleet. An AWD Chevrolet Equinox is in the Truck CAFE fleet. A RWD 5 passenger Tesla Model Y is in the Car CAFE fleet. A RWD 7 passenger Tesla Model Y and an AWD 5 passenger Tesla Model Y would both be in the Truck CAFE fleet. Some of these requirements came about because of the PT Cruiser and the Chevrolet HHR. Both were classified as Truck for CAFE when they launched, solely on the fact that they had tailgates and flat cargo floors. Ironically, both vehicles were designed by the same guy. Not confusing at all, right?