Do you think Chevy will release something like this?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Yang N’ Bang

Well GM needs to fix the whole “teehee your battery might explode, our bad” thing in their ev vehicles before trying anything new.

Yeah this was an LG Chem problem that they accepted responsibility for and are covering the costs/paying GM.


Those batteries are also on the old EV platform, everything moving forward is on Ultium which is largely GM-controlled and manufactured.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

You mean like the diehard carb guys? Then they/we fall to the wayside. Progress happens. Some adapt, most don't care/notice, and a few form a practically inconsequential "resistance". There will likely be a LOT of holdouts that keep that niche, within a niche, within a niche alive, but it'll all be third party affairs. Small, expensive, third-party affairs.

You missed my point (but Mikey gets it). I'm not taking an all-or-nothing position like that suggests.

It's not about returning to everything about 1960s automotive performance. I'm more than fine with things like EFI and chassis improvements.

It was that a car's 'character' should be more about the way it drives (and what you have to put into that) than on today's over-emphasis on luxury and high-tech features that have little or nothing to do with the way the car drives. Let alone the matter of getting fun out of just the driving part of car ownership. And that's without getting into the matter of handing over active control of cars to technology so that the driver is isolated still further from the matter of driving.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Norm, that “character” is only defined by NVH. That’s it. Noise and and vibration. Evert hint els3 will likely be FAR superior. And as I’ve said many, many times I get that and have enjoyed that. But at least be up front that you just need a loud, tuned exhaust to make it “better”

Note that most expensive cars don’t have the vibration issues, just the tuned noise.

You missed my point as well, just not as badly. Sure, NVH is part of it, but I'm looking at the the apparent substitution of luxury and high-tech over the driving as 'character'.

FWIW, I personally don't even like loud exhaust systems. Hate Flowmasters. Just give me louder than a whisper and loud enough for my GoPro's built-in mic to pick up the sound at a track day. My '08 GT still has its OE mufflers, and while I'd be OK with a little more volume I'd rather gain the sound character of an X-pipe'd V8 at about the same volume.

Evert hint els3 will likely be FAR superior.

I have no idea what you meant by that.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Do any of you think electric go karts are boring? Are they more boring than gas powered go karts?

I find both electric and gas to be fun as hell

I don't think the kart driving experience can be extrapolated to full size car driving.

I've driven both, and while both kinds of karts are a lot of fun to drive up around their performance limits, they'd both be boring as hell to be putt-putting around in at 25% of that or less. Like where nearly all of your car driving lives . . .


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Like you, I will stick with a stick shift ICE fun car. And note I said fun, not fast.

This ^^^

It seems too many people can't equate fun to anything but the excitement of 'faster', which really ends up being more a matter of bragging rights for the car they bought than anything. But driving is still part driver and only partly about the car . . .


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

You also talk like you live a quarter-mile at a time with the whole "EV performance is better." I mean, I get that performance is important, but there is a reason why people like cars like Miata. It's not the best in terms of performance, but if you have never driven one, I feel bad for you. You have to understand that fun and performance are not necessarily tied together. They don't tend to be mutually exclusive but that can happen.

The true irony is that even at open tracking days where car performance can matter, people are there for the experience and the fun, not "my horse is bigger than yours." There are all kinds of cars there, all from different performance categories. If EV floats your boat and can bring you that experience, absolutely, but not everyone is like that.

Couldn't have said it better.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Norm, that “character” is only defined by NVH. That’s it. Noise and and vibration. Evert hint els3 will likely be FAR superior. And as I’ve said many, many times I get that and have enjoyed that. But at least be up front that you just need a loud, tuned exhaust to make it “better”

Note that most expensive cars don’t have the vibration issues, just the tuned noise.

That last bit is called 'refinement', where some (or a lot) of the inherent 'character' is distilled out. That's not always a good thing.


Norm

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Thing is, that was not a hype commercial. Some of it might eventually find its way into a commercial, but what that was was about 5 minutes out of a 2 or 3 hour Stellantis presentation to the media and shareholders. You had the head of Stellantis Performance, Tim Kuniskis, flat out state that in 2024 Dodge will introduce an electric muscle car. That’s like Elon Musk saying Tesla will build a pickup truck. You can choose to not believe him, but this is exactly what he told the shareholders and the assembled media. The only person who can legit tell him he won’t is Carlos Tavares, the CEO of Stellantis. The guy who’s pushing all of Stellantis towards EV.

So this just happened. Timely announcement... Stellantis partnering with LG Energy Solutions to produce EV batteries in North America (probably the US).

https://www.lgensol.com/en/company-n...etail?seq=8422

[Martinjlm]

Today must be the day for making battery announcements. Toyota also announced an investment of $3.4B to build a battery plant in the US and to eventually build in the US some of the BEVs that they will soon start shipping from Japan.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

So this just happened. Timely announcement... Stellantis partnering with LG Energy Solutions to produce EV batteries in North America (probably the US).

https://www.lgensol.com/en/company-n...etail?seq=8422

Now to see If GM are smart and point out that this is the company that caused Bolts to catch on fire, and use it as a chance to emphasize the improvements Ultium brings to the table.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by JKSully

Now to see If GM are smart and point out that this is the company that caused Bolts to catch on fire, and use it as a chance to emphasize the improvements Ultium brings to the table.

LG is also GM’s partner on development of Ultium, so there’s that.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

LG is also GM’s partner on development of Ultium, so there’s that.

Ahh...I wasn't aware of that, haven't really been paying too much attention to it. Guess it's smarter for them to not point it out, then. I'll just show myself out of the thread until I learn more...

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by JKSully

Ahh...I wasn't aware of that, haven't really been paying too much attention to it. Guess it's smarter for them to not point it out, then. I'll just show myself out of the thread until I learn more...

No worries. I get paid for knowing things like that. Stay in the thread. Your input is valuable.

[raptor5244]

I am curious to see how well each manufacturer does with their first BEVs. I own a Tesla Model 3 and while the fit and finish needs some work the powertrain, battery and tech features exceed expectations. I am curious to see what an enthusiast performance EV from GM and Dodge would be like. A Tesla Model 3 Performance simply has more power, bigger brakes with non track ready pads, 20" Michelin Pilot 4s tires and a carbon fiber rear lip spoiler. This is not enough IMO.