[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Aquarius

Wow, still triggering people with my anemic comment. 2 things: first, my anemic comment was comparing the 4 cyl. turbo to the other 2 engine options (3 if you wanna include the ZL1). I did not specify that, but assumed people would infer that seeing as the original question was asking about the 4 cyl. or the V6.

If the 2.0T qualifies as "anemic," then so does the V6. They are very close in performance, and the 2.0T can be made significantly faster than the V6 with minimal expense or labor if that really matters.

The 275 horsepower the 4cyl. turbo offers is better than average, but the Camaro is not a compact car, so its 3340lbs. is not very light. Many sporty cars that have 275 horsepower are much lighter, and can do more with that horsepower.

Name one. Name one that's anywhere close to the base Camaro's price range and is RWD and is "much lighter." Or forget the drive layout: name one with a starting price under $30k that has a better power:weight ratio and accelerates significantly faster.

[Aquarius]

Originally Posted by Msquared

If the 2.0T qualifies as "anemic," then so does the V6. They are very close in performance, and the 2.0T can be made significantly faster than the V6 with minimal expense or labor if that really matters.


Name one. Name one that's anywhere close to the base Camaro's price range and is RWD and is "much lighter." Or forget the drive layout: name one with a starting price under $30k that has a better power:weight ratio and accelerates significantly faster.

To answer your first comment, the V6 is adequate, and it does not take premium fuel to drive it. It makes it a better choice than the 4 cyl. turbo, plus you speak of modifying the engine to make it better than the V6. So not only are you going to void warranties to prove your point, but you are also going to reduce the lifespan of the engine as well. Why not buy the better engine to start with?

To answer your second question, a Civic SI has an MSRP of $27,300, has 200 horsepower and a weight of 2952lbs, which gives its a horsepower to weight ratio of almost 15. Add to that its the top of the model line so I am sure it comes with a few bells and whistles that the base 1LS Camaro does not.

The Civic Si was just a car that popped into my head when you made your statement. I am sure there are many many others.

If you start adding qualifiers in, like RWD, stick shift, paddle shifting, ect. ect., for the Camaro to be compared to other cars, I will refer you back to what I said just a few posts before: if someone is getting a Camaro for one of its quirks/features not available on another car, then that person has done their research and is most likely not coming on an internet forum and asking such a general question.

[M0dnar]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

How can someone contradict themselves so quickly.



That's the reason I brought up the V8 Camaro versus Charger Scat Pack. The V8 Camaro is the better road course car between the two, just like a V6 Camaro is a better road course car versus a V6 Malibu.



So if you're gonna tell prospective Camaro V6 buyer to buy a Malibu, then why didn't you buy a Charger?



A lot of people on this site will say the V6 Camaro is marginally faster than a V6 sedan, so just buy the sedan and don't be a 'poser.' As if straight line speed is literally the only thing that matters. Never mind if someone wants an affordable RWD car that's more practical than a Miata/BRZ. Or wants something that will be more fun on back roads or autocross versus a Camry.

I never contradicted myself once. You're just short on comprehension. I can show a horse to water, but I can't force it to drink.

I have a Camaro for track and canyon use. I don't do idiot straight line racing. That's why I don't have a Charger.

I also don't do things half assed. If I wanted something better than a Miata/BRZ, then I'd get a LT1. If I wanted something more fun on the back roads or parking lot hero than a Camry than I'd get a 1/2SS 1LE.

If I wanted to be a poser so everyone who doesn't know Camaros think I have a SS, I'd get a T4/V6. And it's not like the LT1 is a huge price jump over the V6. Just save another year or buy slightly used. Not to mention the OP specifically said he wasn't going to track it. V6 Malibu is objectively a better choice unless he just wants to have something that looks like a Camaro.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

I never contradicted myself once. You're just short on comprehension. I can show a horse to water, but I can't force it to drink.

I have a Camaro for track and canyon use. I don't do idiot straight line racing. That's why I don't have a Charger.

I also don't do things half assed. If I wanted something better than a Miata/BRZ, then I'd get a LT1. If I wanted something more fun on the back roads or parking lot hero than a Camry than I'd get a 1/2SS 1LE.

If I wanted to be a poser so everyone who doesn't know Camaros think I have a SS, I'd get a T4/V6. And it's not like the LT1 is a huge price jump over the V6. Just save another year or buy slightly used. Not to mention the OP specifically said he wasn't going to track it. V6 Malibu is objectively a better choice unless he just wants to have something that looks like a Camaro.

Jesus Christ, thank God the people who buy I4/V6 Camaros aren't as insecure as you.


The OP also said he is going to be driving back roads. So he should skip out on a RWD performance car, and go with a FWD mid sized sedan? The V6 Malibu is going to be just as fun? Are you listening to yourself?



The LT1 trim costs about 7K more than the V6 trim. That's an almost 20% jump in price. That is significant for anyone shopping in the I4/V6 price range.



If the OP wants a performance car, how is the V6 Malibu 'objectively' better as a performance car?!?!

[M0dnar]

OP doesn't want a performance car. He wants a comfortable GT car. The fact that he's looking at T4/V6 is already proof he doesn't care for a performance car. If I wasn't going to go balls out on the back roads, I'd honestly have more fun in a Lexus IS or some high trim Toyota sedan. But if OP insists on the Camaro look, the LT1 with NPP and MRC is a pretty damn good GT car.

And if $7k is a lot of money, then you don't need a new car. A used LT1 with the above options should be about the same as a new V6.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Jesus Christ, thank God the people who buy I4/V6 Camaros aren't as insecure as you.

The OP also said he is going to be driving back roads. So he should skip out on a RWD performance car, and go with a FWD mid sized sedan? The V6 Malibu is going to be just as fun? Are you listening to yourself?

The LT1 trim costs about 7K more than the V6 trim. That's an almost 20% jump in price. That is significant for anyone shopping in the I4/V6 price range.

If the OP wants a performance car, how is the V6 Malibu 'objectively' better as a performance car?!?!

Right on. I think we are seeing the "mines bigger than yours" problem creeping up here. It happens.

Originally Posted by M0dnar

OP doesn't want a performance car. He wants a comfortable GT car. The fact that he's looking at T4/V6 is already proof he doesn't care for a performance car. If I wasn't going to go balls out on the back roads, I'd honestly have more fun in a Lexus IS or some high trim Toyota sedan. But if OP insists on the Camaro look, the LT1 with NPP and MRC is a pretty damn good GT car.

And if $7k is a lot of money, then you don't need a new car. A used LT1 with the above options should be about the same as a new V6.

So - a T4 or V6 automatically disqualifies any car as being a performance car? Great googly moogly. Why cant one go "balls out" on back roads or the twisties with a smaller engined car? Or even at a track event? Ive done track days in 3-series Bimmers, 300zx, Lotus Esprit. No V8 whatsoever. Great fun. I really dont get it here, sorry.

Everyone has a budget and $7K for a toy/weekend car when you are already spending $30K is a factor. And its more like $10K once all is said and done(taxes, other options, etc). Im glad $10K is just chip change for the Forbes listers on the Camaro forum but it matters to us mere mortals,

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

OP doesn't want a performance car. He wants a comfortable GT car. The fact that he's looking at T4/V6 is already proof he doesn't care for a performance car. If I wasn't going to go balls out on the back roads, I'd honestly have more fun in a Lexus IS or some high trim Toyota sedan. But if OP insists on the Camaro look, the LT1 with NPP and MRC is a pretty damn good GT car.

And if $7k is a lot of money, then you don't need a new car. A used LT1 with the above options should be about the same as a new V6.

and having a comfortable GT car is a bad thing?at 63 years old my best racing days are well in the rearview mirror,and id rather have the leather seats,backup camera,etc.than to have a V8 requiring 93 octane.back in the day my old 1966 pontiac tempest hot rod ate 4th gen z-28s for lunch all day long but i no longer drive like a dick.

[M0dnar]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Right on. I think we are seeing the "mines bigger than yours" problem creeping up here. It happens.



So - a T4 or V6 automatically disqualifies any car as being a performance car? Great googly moogly. Why cant one go "balls out" on back roads or the twisties with a smaller engined car? Or even at a track event? Ive done track days in 3-series Bimmers, 300zx, Lotus Esprit. No V8 whatsoever. Great fun. I really dont get it here, sorry.

Everyone has a budget and $7K for a toy/weekend car when you are already spending $30K is a factor. And its more like $10K once all is said and done(taxes, other options, etc). Im glad $10K is just chip change for the Forbes listers on the Camaro forum but it matters to us mere mortals,

A T4/V6 in a 3000+ lb platform is not a performance car. I love when idiots in Miatas think they're in a performance car. No different than the idiots that only race in the 400cc series and can't ride a 600+ worth a shit at race speeds.

And if your budget is $30k, you don't need to be buying a new car. A used LT1 with all the V6 goodies is $30k used. There's one priced for $32k right now in NY. Cheaper than a V6 once you put any options in it plus it won't drive like shit. Half the fun of performance driving is trailbraking just right. The other half is managing wheel slip on the exit. Everything else is just delay between the fun.

It's ok to admit you ****ed up buying a V6. I've admitted it publicly multiple times now. There's no amount of money in the world that would make a V6 a fun, performance car. I've thrown over $25k at my last one and it was only marginally less dogshit than when I left the dealer with it.

[M0dnar]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

and having a comfortable GT car is a bad thing?at 63 years old my best racing days are well in the rearview mirror,and id rather have the leather seats,backup camera,etc.than to have a V8 requiring 93 octane.back in the day my old 1966 pontiac tempest hot rod ate 4th gen z-28s for lunch all day long but i no longer drive like a dick.

I'm not dogging a GT car. I love GT cars. I'm honestly debating between a C8 ZR1 (once they release it) vs an Aston. I already have track toys, but I'm missing a nice GT car and the Aston would fill that role superbly, but that C8 ZR1 is gonna be worth money one day so...

But let's not pretend a T4/V6 Camaro is a GT car. It barely qualifies as a car.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

A T4/V6 in a 3000+ lb platform is not a performance car.

Lmao what kind of gatekeeping bullshit is this? A Civic Type R isn't a performance car? A Lancer Evolution isn't a performance car? A E46 M3 isn't a performance car? A 370Z isn't a performance car?



Every modern car using a 6 cylinder engine is over 3000lbs, unless you're talking exotics. Most turbo 4 cars are over 3000lbs as well, or damn near close to it.



You're making up a bunch of bullshit just because you don't like a V6/I4 Camaro.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

A T4/V6 in a 3000+ lb platform is not a performance car. I love when idiots in Miatas think they're in a performance car. No different than the idiots that only race in the 400cc series and can't ride a 600+ worth a shit at race speeds.

And if your budget is $30k, you don't need to be buying a new car. A used LT1 with all the V6 goodies is $30k used. There's one priced for $32k right now in NY. Cheaper than a V6 once you put any options in it plus it won't drive like shit. Half the fun of performance driving is trailbraking just right. The other half is managing wheel slip on the exit. Everything else is just delay between the fun.

It's ok to admit you ****ed up buying a V6. I've admitted it publicly multiple times now. There's no amount of money in the world that would make a V6 a fun, performance car. I've thrown over $25k at my last one and it was only marginally less dogshit than when I left the dealer with it.

I see. OK then. What I need or don’t need isn’t reliant on your input but thanks! I stand by my comment that me and millions of others have had fabulous track days with everything from inline fours to V6s and whatever else. And we will continue to do so.

Good luck and enjoy all 'dem silindehrs!

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

I'm not dogging a GT car. I love GT cars. I'm honestly debating between a C8 ZR1 (once they release it) vs an Aston. I already have track toys, but I'm missing a nice GT car and the Aston would fill that role superbly, but that C8 ZR1 is gonna be worth money one day so...

But let's not pretend a T4/V6 Camaro is a GT car. It barely qualifies as a car.

im out...maybe we can talk again in a few years when youve grown up.

[Seniorrs]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

A T4/V6 in a 3000+ lb platform is not a performance car. I love when idiots in Miatas think they're in a performance car. No different than the idiots that only race in the 400cc series and can't ride a 600+ worth a shit at race speeds.

And if your budget is $30k, you don't need to be buying a new car. A used LT1 with all the V6 goodies is $30k used. There's one priced for $32k right now in NY. Cheaper than a V6 once you put any options in it plus it won't drive like shit. Half the fun of performance driving is trailbraking just right. The other half is managing wheel slip on the exit. Everything else is just delay between the fun.

It's ok to admit you ****ed up buying a V6. I've admitted it publicly multiple times now. There's no amount of money in the world that would make a V6 a fun, performance car. I've thrown over $25k at my last one and it was only marginally less dogshit than when I left the dealer with it.

Man I didn't know my v6 was that bad. Thanks for letting me know bro !

[Hrothgar]

Originally Posted by M0dnar

It's ok to admit you ****ed up buying a V6. I've admitted it publicly multiple times now. There's no amount of money in the world that would make a V6 a fun, performance car. I've thrown over $25k at my last one and it was only marginally less dogshit than when I left the dealer with it.

Ah, it all makes sense now. You blew $25k trying to turn a V6 Camaro into a V8, and you hate yourself for it. And because you do, anyone else who even considers a T4/V6 Camaro ("barely a car", afterall), needs to be brought down to your particular level of self-loathing. I get it.

OR, you happen to have a very high level of expectation for performance based on your past experiences, experiences that would make many of us weekend corner carvers pale in comparison, and thus, your opinion of how a non V-8 Camaro performs comes from a different place then your standard, middle-age driver who just wants a little fun and finds anything near 300hp just fine.

Either way, I'm okay with your take/perspective. Carry on.