[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The list would be really small if you exclude super cars.

How about starting with the Camaros key and only competitors, Mustang and Challenger. Those are the benchmarks. It doesn’t even matter if the Corvette is worse.

It’s awesome if you like it. That’s great for you. But your being able to list a bunch of Ferrari’s and McClarens doesn’t excuse the Camaros visibility issues.

So factually, not end of story.

After owning Corvettes I’ve never thought the blind spots in the Camaro was as bad as you tubers and the media make it out to be. It just gives them something to complain about... I’ve got a new Shelby GT350R in the garage right now and it’s not any better with the large back spoiler. Even the old muscle cars in the past wasn’t much better.

[Aragorn]

I’ve been driving one about a week and so far the only time a feel a little uncomfortable is when backing up. I’m good with everything else.

[JamesNoBrakes]

I was a bit taken back when I got my BMW 4 grand coupe, the sloping rear afforded a rear window that was no bigger than my Camaro Gen 5, and they cut the rear view mirror down around the edges to kind of "fool you" into thinking it's bigger, but it's tiny.

All cars have higher sills these days, but some, like the Camaro, are even higher. On the other hand, it probably affords a stronger door in a crash and better protection, so there's that. I fail to understand how this bugs people so much, I like the fact that people aren't gazing into my car. The sills definitely make it feel more exotic. See my "high visibility sports car" on the previous page if compromises for looks bother you

[CoolbreezeNJ]

If you went and measured the Challenger and Stang I bet that have 1-2" more on the side windows. They still have a very large C-Pillar. On the Stang that hood drops and it is the same issue judging distance. Of course if you drive either one in the turns in comparison to the Camaro it feels like they left off the shocks with the sway you get. Sports car anyone????

Now Miata, new Supra, old S2000, any of the Porches, any Vette. BMW Z-Cars. Of course all of the Super Cars. Old Viper. GTR, Nissan 370, etc. Nearly all 2-seater cars have the same issues if not more and less trunk space. Now pricing, how would you have liked to pay $34K for a S2000 back in the year 2000 and dealers marked them up. What a deal?? Hmmm the Miata gets to $35K real fast and what 0-60 is maybe 6 seconds??

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by CoolbreezeNJ

If you went and measured the Challenger and Stang I bet that have 1-2" more on the side windows. They still have a very large C-Pillar. On the Stang that hood drops and it is the same issue judging distance. Of course if you drive either one in the turns in comparison to the Camaro it feels like they left off the shocks with the sway you get. Sports car anyone????

Now Miata, new Supra, old S2000, any of the Porches, any Vette. BMW Z-Cars. Of course all of the Super Cars. Old Viper. GTR, Nissan 370, etc. Nearly all 2-seater cars have the same issues if not more and less trunk space. Now pricing, how would you have liked to pay $34K for a S2000 back in the year 2000 and dealers marked them up. What a deal?? Hmmm the Miata gets to $35K real fast and what 0-60 is maybe 6 seconds??

Unless you put a GM 6.2L V8 under the hood

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...azda-mx-5-v-8/

Keep in mind every car you listed is either really low volume or no longer exists.

I completely understand why some people don't care about outward direct vision. If you convince yourself it's a sports car and you believe that's part of the package. AWESOME!!!!! I've said that all along.

The concern is only around sales volume. If the Camaro needs to sell more to be profitable enough to exist let alone earn a Gen7, then these are at least some of the reasons.

Camaro is the better performance car of the 3, at least until the GT500 comes out.

It's the better looking of the 3

And IMO, it's not over priced for what you get in style and performance. Could be better in a few areas, interior could be a bit better for a $50,000 but GM has historically put a $26,000 interior in a$26,000 car and then let that be the same interior as the $50,000 car. And the ZL1 at $70,000 should have a REALLY nice interior.

If GM is happy with selling in 3rd place and making the profit they planned for then there is no issue.

If, however, GM needed to sell 75,000 Camaros for the NPV to work out, then we are in trouble.

As I've mentioned many times, GM made trade offs. For example the ATS coupe has a trunk large enough to fit two sets of golf clubs with 45" drivers in the bag. ATS coupe actually has decent rear seat leg room (except they chopped the roof for styling and the headroom is horrid) and although it has a high belt and chopped roof, direct vision is still pretty good. Point being, a coupe off of the Alpha architecture could have addressed the 3 points.

However, if you convince yourself that the Camaro customer doesn't care about those attributes and you let the studio style them away you are kind of stuck. And a lot of Camaro customers don't prioritize those attributes and bought the car.

What would be interesting to see is the data on why people did not buy a Camaro. A survey of Challenger buyers on why they chose a 10 year old chassis over what is clearly the best in the class?

I wanted a Gen6 in the worst way. I truly looked forward to it. Then when I took my golf clubs into the showroom (the salesman let me try to get my clubs in the trunk) and discovered the only way the clubs would fit was by removing the driver and putting it in the backseat. I even tried just putting the driver in the trunk and it wouldn't fit. Combine that with Mrs. Number 3 (who has driven enough Corvettes in her career) said she couldn't see herself wanting to drive it for the visibility (I actually would have made that trade off if the clubs fit) the decision was made. And now I hope for the Gen7.

Oddly, many people take this personally. I can't figure out how anyone could take the fact that their car has poor visibility as a personal issue. Maybe it's an internet thing. Be proud of your Camaro. You bought a truly great car. If it make you happy then it shouldn't matter.

I'd just like to see the car sell better. First, so we get a Gen7. If not profitable it will die again. Second, I have hopes that this segment doesn't wither and die. This likely means we have a road full of people that don't enjoy their cars or simply driving.

If you truly have the best product (and I believe the Camaro is that) and it isn't selling you have to ask yourself why. And now the OPs point on adjust your mirrors just turned into a thread on TV advertising

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

I designed this car for you:

This is his pet peeve so take it as such. He has never owned a Camaro -or Corvette- and I’m pretty sure that would apply to Mustang and Challenger as well.

All the above cars come with compromises that those actually responsible for designing them weighed. I’d welcome a Camaro with a large greenhouse, that seats a larger driver, three large passengers and two sets of clubs ...as long as it doesn’t compromise style, acceleration, handling = weight.

It will be interesting to see what the gen7 brings. I’ve wondered if Al O’s moving on in the organization signals that GM wants a change in direction as they are likely into gen7 now.

My first new car was an 84 Monte SS. I drove a 04 GTO 11 years (best car I ever owned). Those are more in line with what Number3 wants but are not Camaro DNA.

[hotlap]

Holden knows how to design an interior that doesn’t rattle or squeak. Someone at Chevy should go there for training

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Holden knows how to design an interior that doesn’t rattle or squeak. Someone at Chevy should go there for training

Based on?

The only thing we've seen here engineered by Holden was the G8 and the SS. Maybe a few folks got to ride in the PPV...……...in the back seat

My SS was not rattle free and had to have a few things corrected. And it was far from warranty free. Maybe more times at the dealer than any car I've owned except the Audi S4.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Unless you put a GM 6.2L V8 under the hood

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...azda-mx-5-v-8/

Keep in mind every car you listed is either really low volume or no longer exists.

I completely understand why some people don't care about outward direct vision. If you convince yourself it's a sports car and you believe that's part of the package. AWESOME!!!!! I've said that all along.

The concern is only around sales volume. If the Camaro needs to sell more to be profitable enough to exist let alone earn a Gen7, then these are at least some of the reasons.
Camaro is the better performance car of the 3, at least until the GT500 comes out.

It's the better looking of the 3

And IMO, it's not over priced for what you get in style and performance. Could be better in a few areas, interior could be a bit better for a $50,000 but GM has historically put a $26,000 interior in a$26,000 car and then let that be the same interior as the $50,000 car. And the ZL1 at $70,000 should have a REALLY nice interior.

If GM is happy with selling in 3rd place and making the profit they planned for then there is no issue.

If, however, GM needed to sell 75,000 Camaros for the NPV to work out, then we are in trouble.

As I've mentioned many times, GM made trade offs. For example the ATS coupe has a trunk large enough to fit two sets of golf clubs with 45" drivers in the bag. ATS coupe actually has decent rear seat leg room (except they chopped the roof for styling and the headroom is horrid) and although it has a high belt and chopped roof, direct vision is still pretty good. Point being, a coupe off of the Alpha architecture could have addressed the 3 points.

However, if you convince yourself that the Camaro customer doesn't care about those attributes and you let the studio style them away you are kind of stuck. And a lot of Camaro customers don't prioritize those attributes and bought the car.

What would be interesting to see is the data on why people did not buy a Camaro. A survey of Challenger buyers on why they chose a 10 year old chassis over what is clearly the best in the class?

I wanted a Gen6 in the worst way. I truly looked forward to it. Then when I took my golf clubs into the showroom (the salesman let me try to get my clubs in the trunk) and discovered the only way the clubs would fit was by removing the driver and putting it in the backseat. I even tried just putting the driver in the trunk and it wouldn't fit. Combine that with Mrs. Number 3 (who has driven enough Corvettes in her career) said she couldn't see herself wanting to drive it for the visibility (I actually would have made that trade off if the clubs fit) the decision was made. And now I hope for the Gen7.

Oddly, many people take this personally. I can't figure out how anyone could take the fact that their car has poor visibility as a personal issue. Maybe it's an internet thing. Be proud of your Camaro. You bought a truly great car. If it make you happy then it shouldn't matter.

I'd just like to see the car sell better. First, so we get a Gen7. If not profitable it will die again. Second, I have hopes that this segment doesn't wither and die. This likely means we have a road full of people that don't enjoy their cars or simply driving.

If you truly have the best product (and I believe the Camaro is that) and it isn't selling you have to ask yourself why. And now the OPs point on adjust your mirrors just turned into a thread on TV advertising

Hold your golf clubs! Are you kidding me.. get a mini van if you need to haul your clubs, it’s a muscle car/ sports car not a cargo van or golf cart.:

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Based on?

The only thing we've seen here engineered by Holden was the G8 and the SS. Maybe a few folks got to ride in the PPV...……...in the back seat

My SS was not rattle free and had to have a few things corrected. And it was far from warranty free. Maybe more times at the dealer than any car I've owned except the Audi S4.

Based on 11 years and 115,000 miles in a 04 GTO.

The interior didn’t rattle and that material quality was better than my 13 ZL1.

I do my own maintenance so it was only at a dealer once to replace the gas cap under a recall. It still had its original water pump, radiator, starter, alternator, etc. No electrical issues ...at all. Just normal maintenance and wear parts.

[jlcustomz]

On the subject of blind spots with any vehicle, I think looking & relooking without getting distracted can be as important as anything.

A question on this subject. I've several times in early morning & late evening did the look one way, look the other, then relook as getting ready to turn from a stop into an intersection & not initially seen cars with no lights on in a greyish color almost blending into the dull asphalt pavement. Happens to me every so often & I'm about to roll before seeing them. Anyone else have this happen?

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Based on 11 years and 115,000 miles in a 04 GTO.

The interior didn’t rattle and that material quality was better than my 13 ZL1.

I do my own maintenance so it was only at a dealer once to replace the gas cap under a recall. It still had its original water pump, radiator, starter, alternator, etc. No electrical issues ...at all. Just normal maintenance and wear parts.

But it looks like a Toyota. Right in there with the Aztek and the Prius.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by jlcustomz

On the subject of blind spots with any vehicle, I think looking & relooking without getting distracted can be as important as anything.

A question on this subject. I've several times in early morning & late evening did the look one way, look the other, then relook as getting ready to turn from a stop into an intersection & not initially seen cars with no lights on in a greyish color almost blending into the dull asphalt pavement. Happens to me every so often & I'm about to roll before seeing them. Anyone else have this happen?

100% yes, I commented to my wife just the other day that half the cars on the road blend right into the pavement. My next car won’t and it was a factor.

[Val Walkinshaw]

Originally Posted by sengli

I have had people tell about this issue for years. I have owned two Gen5's and now two Gen6 camaros. I dont DD mine, but I dont even notice a visibility issue. Of course when I park, I always back into a spot. And of course I park in the farthest emptiest place in the lot.

I back in everywhere! Anywhere I can, and can't.

The furthest away, in the corner, up against a curb....

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