09-29-2017, 05:03 PM | #29 |
Drives: 16' Camaro 2SS Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 381
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So glad I bought a Maggie, Cam Kit, Pistons/Rods, Full Fuel System, Alky Control Kit, and everything else as my "Stage 1". lol
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09-29-2017, 06:10 PM | #30 |
Drives: 2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 51
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09-29-2017, 08:33 PM | #31 |
Drives: 16' Camaro 2SS Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 381
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@DeathWatchCamaro on Insta
993whp Magnuson 2.3R 9.5 @ 145, Magnuson 2300, Full Weight 2SS, 17’s (810whp) |
09-29-2017, 08:44 PM | #32 |
Drives: 2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 51
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Would love chance to pick your brain on that solution, impacts from lowered compression, more boost, mileage, ect.
CMS is in my neighborhood and I'm chewing on their solution or something more comprehensive from TSP but possibly overkill. Apologize for going off thread topic. |
09-30-2017, 12:24 AM | #33 |
Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hilo, HI
Posts: 4,320
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It was only a matter time before I have more toys, not like you plebs, post comes out on a non-inter-cooled kit discussion...
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
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09-30-2017, 12:50 AM | #34 | |
Drives: 16' Camaro 2SS Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 381
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Quote:
Hope whatever you choose works out great for you.
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@DeathWatchCamaro on Insta
993whp Magnuson 2.3R 9.5 @ 145, Magnuson 2300, Full Weight 2SS, 17’s (810whp) |
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10-02-2017, 08:18 PM | #35 | |
Drives: 2015 C7 Z06 M7 Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 654
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Quote:
When a roots device is at cruise - the SC is under manifold vacuum (lower air density to spin the rotors in) and it is simply recirculating the from the SC outlet to the SC inlet, input power to the device is very low and heating is minimal. While there is some temp increase, it is due to the recirculation of the low density air and lack of fresh inlet air. Once the throttle is opened there is a rapid drop in temp due to fresh air induction followed by a gradual rise as manifold compression occurs. A screw device is under the same manifold vacuum except the device is compressing and releasing within the rotor mesh during cruise even though the compression is not needed. The bypass valve routes the excess outlet air back to the inlet, but it cannot turn off the internal compression. This results in increased supercharger input power at idle/cruise, increased manifold temps, and reduces fuel economy compared to the roots. A centrifugal supercharger is always operating at atmospheric pressure since it located before the throttle body. This allows it the benefit of not having to recirculate the air back to the inlet of the SC providing a continual flow of fresh air. While this keeps temps down it also costs in the form of SC input power at cruise conditions the due to pumping full atmospheric pressure air through the device and higher mechanical losses compared to a roots or screw from the gear drive system to achieve the necessary RPM to make a centrifugal compressor operate.
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10-02-2017, 08:31 PM | #36 |
Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Hilo, HI
Posts: 4,320
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Nice
I had a whip pile before which is a Lysholm so a screw. These new twisted Eatons are looking more like a Lysholm do they still behave like a roots or are the in between a trans blower?
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
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10-02-2017, 09:27 PM | #37 | |
Drives: 2015 C7 Z06 M7 Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 654
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Quote:
I setup the engine dyno with a completely stock LT1 (including all stock fuel system) with a Magnuson Heartbeat 2300. I used good old California Chevron 91 octane in the tank and outfitted the throttle body inlet tube with a dual large nozzle AEM water injection system delivering up to 1600 cc/min of a 50/50 water/meth mix. Engine was tuned to for max power under both conditions (pulley timing and A/F) and while I really thought they would make about the same power, they did not. Intercooled made 729 HP Non - Intercooled made 678 HP It seemed the biggest trouble I ran into when trying to run high levels of water/meth injection without the intercoolers was cylinder to cylinder distribution. The intercoolers in the mainfold seem to do a nice job of driving distribution throughout the manifold. I would have like to try straight methanol which would possibly help with distribution, but time didn't allow. Now, with that being said, the addition of water/meth to this engine/sc combination added about 110 HP overall on pump gas (intercooled or not) and the NON intercooled SC system with water/meth made ~ 60 HP over the base intercooled SC kit on pump gas alone. So, if the question is can you make as much power with the non intercooled kit with water injection as you can with the intercooled kit? The answer is an easy yet - but no matter which way you look at it (with or without water/meth), the intercoolers add at least 50 HP to the system...
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10-03-2017, 07:51 AM | #38 | ||
Drives: Many C7's Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 573
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Quote:
You basically just wrote exactly what I was saying in my original post... Though I didn't want to add a bunch of tech stuff and confuse people Cliff notes on BOTH of our posts. Roots = Temp increase when not in boost. Screw = Temp increase when not in boost. Centri = no temp increase when not in boost Turbo = no temp increase when not in boost Which makes the quote below incorrect, by now THREE people. - You, that works for a Roots blower manufacture. - KenneBells own website that builds screws. - Myself that works for ProCharger a centirfugal. Quote:
Again, just as I stated in my post... all of this isn't the end of the world. And really isn't a big deal. However, its not factual to say things like that. Thats all I was trying to say. Members of this forum want to hear FACTS, not opinions. I appreciate your posts always, since they are always solid. |
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10-03-2017, 08:11 AM | #39 | |
Drives: BLUE CAMARO ZL1 1LE M6 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: ON THE DYNO WATERBURY CT.
Posts: 15,225
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When someone suggest blowers super heat air while driving normally I have to disagree.
It is all a matter of perception. When does any forced induction make the most heat? when in boost. As you can see I said Blowers which groups them all together. I hear the term Heat soak which is the most misunderstood over used comment in any Forced induction forum on the internet. This is what I was referring to. You only selected the part of my comment you want to argue about. Quote:
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www.jannettyracing.com
Celebrating 37 years Performance parts, Installation, Fabrication, Dyno tuning, Remote custom tuning, and alignments. 203-753-7223 Waterbury CT. 06705 email tedj@jannettyracing.com |
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10-03-2017, 08:13 AM | #40 |
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 6,800
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What fuel system upgrades would be needed so you could run the Non IC maggie with E85? Would a pump voltage booster suffice?
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2016 NFG 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA Last edited by KingLT1; 10-03-2017 at 08:24 AM. |
10-03-2017, 12:51 PM | #41 | |
Drives: 2015 C7 Z06 M7 Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 654
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Quote:
As soon as throttle is opened - then there is air, this vacuum is filled, and the temp measurement of "nothing" is gone.
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10-03-2017, 01:28 PM | #42 | |
Drives: 2015 C7 Z06 M7 Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So-Cal
Posts: 654
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Quote:
To realize internal compression (like a screw) you need inter-meshing male and female rotors spinning different speeds (5/3, 6/4, etc). Theoretically internal compression makes them more efficient. Real World? That might be another story... manufacturing process has it's pitfalls and impact on performance.
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