[ProCharger]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Please understand the blower only makes heat when making boost.

Ummmm, not true at alllllllllllll at least not about roots/screws.

Even a screw supercharger manufacture states this on their website.
(KenneBell)

"Centrifugals run cooler at idle because they are not compressing air (boost) like the positive displacement superchargers."

"so, of course the “idle” temps are higher. Again, you look at the higher efficiency and boost of a 15-30 psi Twin Screw and the benefits. Higher IAT’s are unavoidable"



I'm not saying it the end of the world.
But your statement isn't factual and is misleading.

These heat factors are why an entire section of the industry is devoted to "Cooling Mods" for cars like the CTS-V, or ZL-1, etc. etc.


Again, not the end of the world.
Just want to make sure facts are being talked about.











NOTE: If you are talking about a Centrifugal or Turbo, then YES... you are correct. Boost = Heat.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by ProCharger

Ummmm, not true at alllllllllllll at least not about roots/screws.

Even a screw supercharger manufacture states this on their website.
(KenneBell)

"Centrifugals run cooler at idle because they are not compressing air (boost) like the positive displacement superchargers."

"so, of course the “idle” temps are higher. Again, you look at the higher efficiency and boost of a 15-30 psi Twin Screw and the benefits. Higher IAT’s are unavoidable"

I'm not saying it the end of the world.
But your statement isn't factual and is misleading.

These heat factors are why an entire section of the industry is devoted to "Cooling Mods" for cars like the CTS-V, or ZL-1, etc. etc.

Again, not the end of the world.
Just want to make sure facts are being talked about.

NOTE: If you are talking about a Centrifugal or Turbo, then YES... you are correct. Boost = Heat.

You are Entitled to your opinion.

[oldman]

wold like to see a dyno. In the olddays, both turbo and non-intercooled supercargers were more of the norm, I drove types over say 200,000 miles. I felt the gain and bang for the dollar to be worth it, mild boost levels from 5 to 7 PSI. I'd like to see a dyno of of this setup and about how long the mix would last on the street... say 1 gallon and I do 20 seconds of wot every day or 50 miles a day.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

You are Entitled to your opinion.

I think the hair splitting is pretty fine. IMO the heat injected into the engine by a screw at low throttle daily driving vs the procharger's air pickup over the header is um moot at best.


My last setup was a powerdyne plumbed to the front for air pickup.

Back on topic for cheap, I can see something like this for me: rotorfab, non-intercooled blower, headers, say dunno 5 PSI on E85 with meth set to come in at 3 PSI...I could see this a real bang for the dollar.... How much would setup give Jannetty: E85, headers, rotorfab, non-intercooled blower and a tune say 90 degrees out, just for thought purposes....

https://www.magnusonsuperchargers.co...-62-379-bl.htm

please note that magnuson uses the cheezy STP HP.. at least their baseline is also STP, a real comparison would be as measure HP....

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by oldman

I think the hair splitting is pretty fine. IMO the heat injected into the engine by a screw at low throttle daily driving vs the procharger's air pickup over the header is um moot at best.

My last setup was a powerdyne plumbed to the front for air pickup.

Back on topic for cheap, I can see something like this for me: rotorfab, non-intercooled blower, headers, say dunno 5 PSI on E85 with meth set to come in at 3 PSI...I could see this a real bang for the dollar.... How much would setup give Jannetty: E85, headers, rotorfab, non-intercooled blower and a tune say 90 degrees out, just for thought purposes....

https://www.magnusonsuperchargers.co...-62-379-bl.htm

please note that magnuson uses the cheezy STP HP.. at least their baseline is also STP, a real comparison would be as measure HP....

A couple things to note.

You would not be able to run E-85 unless you do the LT4 fuel system components even at 5 psi.

If you are running E-85 there is no point in the Meth injection at 5 psi.

Both E-85 and Meth need Heat to vaporize the fuel and during this process sucks the heat right out of the air temp.

Meth injection on 91 or 93 octane at 5 psi would be a good combo in non intercooled application.

In an intercooled application I would not add meth until around 8 psi or above.

Ted.

[ShizzySupra]

Whats the point in trying to run non-intercooled? Especially if we are talking about such baby boost levels? The meth kit just adds more complexity and "one more thing" that could fail. A good meth kit will run you $700ish anyways. Just buy the intercooled maggie...

[oldman]

thanks, so basically with an LT4 high side and a Maggie non-intercooled 5.6 PSI (according to mfg. dyno), one would be all set on E85... till the oldlady releases more reserve cash for the intercooler. This would not be a bad way to go.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by oldman

thanks, so basically with an LT4 high side and a Maggie non-intercooled 5.6 PSI (according to mfg. dyno), one would be all set on E85... till the oldlady releases more reserve cash for the intercooler. This would not be a bad way to go.

ZL-1 in tank, LT4 HPFP, and LT4 injectors, Flex fuel kit, HPtuners, JRE custom tune included with purchase of supercharger and said fuel system parts from JRE.

Ted.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Whats the point in trying to run non-intercooled? Especially if we are talking about such baby boost levels? The meth kit just adds more complexity and "one more thing" that could fail. A good meth kit will run you $700ish anyways. Just buy the intercooled maggie...

Fair question, I think it is not everyone needs nor wants, to jump in at a $7500 stage 1 starting point. Many people me included like incremental changes to see how the engine responds, part of a hobby. But I'll give you what I think:

1) cause the non-intercooler is WAY cheaper
2) way easier to put on
3) guys are running out of fuel and have to go to some sort of Alky injection anyway, and $700 for Alky, meth, water, N20 is way cheaper than:
intercooler + LT4 high + Lt4 low side. And probably depending on the setup could produce more HP.
4) The word "just" is misused, please send me your credit card number.
5) I can see many guys looking at $5000 now and 505 STP HP with a nice torque curve to be the BEST for stage 1.
6) this is internet bench racing, so one can always say just buy a ZLE ILE and be "right".
7) 5.6 PSI is not chump change. I know I know, all real men start at two atmospheres.

All and all I think it is an interesting way to skin a cat.
Say right now, I'm at $3000 full bolt ons 470 whp SAE, really one can see the guy that "just" did step 5 above is having way more fun and it looks bad action under the hood AND has a better platform to go further. "Just" saying.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

ZL-1 in tank, LT4 HPFP, and LT4 injectors, Flex fuel kit, HPtuners, JRE custom tune included with purchase of supercharger and said fuel system parts from JRE.

Ted.

You are an evil man Ted

[ShizzySupra]

1) Correct. It's $4,930 vs $6,904
2) The complexity of a alcohol injection kit install is about the same as the heat exchanger set-up.
3) The meth should not be used as a bandaid for fueling needs. You are playing with fire that way anyways.
4) If $2,000 difference is make or break when you already own a 45k car then maybe you should "just" not mod it.
5) Correct, 90% of the people on the board think that headers/tune is crazy fast. So a base, base Maggie/P1sc would blow most people out of their chairs.
6) Comparing buying an $80k car vs a SS with a base procharger/maggie is kind of out there even in the lands of internet bench racing.
7) 5.6 psi isn't much at all. Which is why I don't understand the need to run E85. The entire LT4 kit and ZL1 in tank + install is VERY expensive.

You can "just" do you it your way. I "just" was saying I like things simple my friend. Good luck on your build!!

Originally Posted by oldman

Fair question, I think it is not everyone needs nor wants, to jump in at a $7500 stage 1 starting point. Many people me included like incremental changes to see how the engine responds, part of a hobby. But I'll give you what I think:

1) cause the non-intercooler is WAY cheaper
2) way easier to put on
3) guys are running out of fuel and have to go to some sort of Alky injection anyway, and $700 for Alky, meth, water, N20 is way cheaper than:
intercooler + LT4 high + Lt4 low side. And probably depending on the setup could produce more HP.
4) The word "just" is misused, please send me your credit card number.
5) I can see many guys looking at $5000 now and 505 STP HP with a nice torque curve to be the BEST for stage 1.
6) this is internet bench racing, so one can always say just buy a ZLE ILE and be "right".
7) 5.6 PSI is not chump change. I know I know, all real men start at two atmospheres.

All and all I think it is an interesting way to skin a cat.
Say right now, I'm at $3000 full bolt ons 470 whp SAE, really one can see the guy that "just" did step 5 above is having way more fun and it looks bad action under the hood AND has a better platform to go further. "Just" saying.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

1) Correct. It's $4,930 vs $6,904
2) The complexity of a alcohol injection kit install is about the same as the heat exchanger set-up.

$2000 cheap for some... what if 99% of the people are happy stock .75% would be happy with 507 STP WHP non-intercooled and .25% want more and out of the .12% don't think too much of $2000 difference. Agree never said that a non-intercooled setup is the cat's meow for everyone.

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

3) The meth should not be used as a bandaid for fueling needs. You are playing with fire that way anyways.

Actually it looks like at 5.6 PSI on 91 octane on a bone stock engine no meth is needed for 507 STP WHP, say about 490 as measured HP and a flat PD torque curve. The meth is more of a safety margin at 5.6 PSI.

Plus as it looks like E85 on an LT4 pump and injectors would do the same thing (factory eth injection) and I'm sure NOBODY considers a factory fuel system as a bandaid.

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

4) If $2,000 difference is make or break when you already own a 45k car then maybe you should "just" not mod it.

My car was $32,500 out the door.

so the $2000 difference for 70 HP say OK, makes sense to you, might make sense to somebody that 507 stp WHP with a flat and instant torque curve is just fine which I noted above is the 99% of LT owner's expectation. But alas I agree if some is good, more is better and obviously too much... is just right when it comes to HP and money injected.

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

5) Correct, 90% of the people on the board think that headers/tune is crazy fast. So a base, base Maggie/P1sc would blow most people out of their chairs.

LOL I'm sure it would be for me. Look in 1998 with the LS1, all the Mustangs guys would come up and tell me about the FBO Cobra 5.0 at what 240 HP? Each step of merry go round it has been wow that is CRAZY fast. Heck FBO can't even hook all of 1st and 1/2 of 2nd as is.

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

6) Comparing buying an $80k car vs a SS with a base procharger/maggie is kind of out there even in the lands of internet bench racing.

Just saying it is the natural progression, but admittedly a stawman..

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

7) 5.6 psi isn't much at all. Which is why I don't understand the need to run E85. The entire LT4 kit and ZL1 in tank + install is VERY expensive.

Would not need the tank pump of course. The lt4 High pump is about $1000, probbably would not need the $700 lt4 injectors. You could argue that it should be E85, non-intercooled supercharger and a 32% lobe supercharger cam would be the right stage 1.

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

You can "just" do you it your way. I "just" was saying I like things simple my friend. Good luck on your build!!

Amen bro, I'm still with the kids and wife in college deal with one more that is 5 years out. Say about $800,000 or so.

[KingLT1]

The ADM LT4 blower package for 4995.00 looks interesting compared to a non intercooled Maggie.

LT4 base package. 550whp/580wtq, 560/600 with roto fab.

Non intercooled maggie- 505/470

Same price roughly. The bonuse for Maggies is more efficient, better upgrade path, full install intstuctions, and easier to install.

The LT4 blower setup ideally is best if you have ADM do the install becasue they offer no install instructions.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

The ADM LT4 blower package for 4995.00 looks interesting compared to a non intercooled Maggie.

LT4 base package. 550whp/580wtq, 560/600 with roto fab.

Non intercooled maggie- 505/470

Same price roughly. The bonuse for Maggies is more efficient, better upgrade path, full install intstuctions, and easier to install.

The LT4 blower setup ideally is best if you have ADM do the install becasue they offer no install instructions.

bout sums it up.