Honda and GM form a $2.75B partnership to create autonomous cars!

[motorhead]

Well, we run Ford transmissions and they run ours ,so this doesnt surprise me. I've always said they are all in it together anyhow.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by YARBIE 1

I just now realized why in the hell is this post on here anyway?
This is a Linked In type post. We should call this the Camaro/MSN forum.

Because you can only make so many "I hate the 2019/A8 shudder" threads.

[Skyset]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

The problem with Toyota is they got too big too fast. They ramped up production and added too many new products in a short period of time which goes against automotive protocol. Many companies limit their production due to the fact that the faster you make cars the more defects they have. Honda experienced the same growth at the same time but corporate limited the expansion so it wouldn't affect quality. With the newer technologies though you are seeing more and more problems with all cars. Most of the problems I see working at Honda is not the build quality itself from Honda but the parts from the suppliers like starters, auto units, emission components. But after working with GM, BMW, and others I will say properly maintained Hondas are a much better quality vehicle. That being said, I still picked the Camaro because Honda has nothing that compares in looks or fun and I love it. Even though the Camaro had more warranty work done the first 6 months than the entire 130k miles of my last Civic.

Word.

You said it best - as much as GM improved after 2008, it still has nothing on Toyota or Honda. There is a reason they are #1. Anyone else is just a delusional fanboy.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Camaro...but I have never had a brand new car in for so many warranty issues...

My 15 year old Honda has been in the dealership less than my brand new Camaro. There is a reason why Toyota/Honda are consistently ranked #1 in reliability.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Skyset

Word.

You said it best - as much as GM improved after 2008, it still has nothing on Toyota or Honda. There is a reason they are #1. Anyone else is just a delusional fanboy.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Camaro...but I have never had a brand new car in for so many warranty issues...

My 15 year old Honda has been in the dealership less than my brand new Camaro. There is a reason why Toyota/Honda are consistently ranked #1 in reliability.

Well if you look at the JD Power ratings, Honda and Toyota aren't ranked that high anymore. In fact Honda won less awards than many other brands. Anyway, you're lucky, other people with Hondas aren't so fortunate. I encourage you to check the Honda/Toyota forums to get the true picture. BTW, the 2018 Mustang is supposed to be top notch for reliability according to Consumer Reports and it's a POS as evidenced in the forums / youtube, so mag reports should also be taken with a grain of salt. There is no guarantee with any make, or model.

Also, you're comparing a high performance car like the Camaro to a Civic. Apples and oranges. I'm sounding like a broken record, but check out the Civic Type-R forums. The car is basically a nightmare to a lot of owners, with one problem after another. Even the current gen Civic SI's are having issues. I'm not saying the Camaro doesn't have its share, but everyone isn't going to have the same experience. No warranty work on mine for the last 10 months (6k miles) of ownership.

Got to agree with those that say Honda / Toyota are overrated. But more so today than in the past. Yes, there was a time they were bullet proof, but not anymore. Kia and Hyundai was considering crap not that long ago, now they're ranked among the highest and their owners swear by them.

[00 Trans Ram]

Originally Posted by JohnCobalt

Not my future.

Don't knock it just yet. Think about how it will be, versus how it is now.

NOW:
You're driving on the interstate, and you have 2 people in front of you, one in each lane. Both are going around 65mph, and the person in the left lane won't pull over. Finally, after about 5 min, they get out of the way. Then, 10 miles later, you encounter the same thing.

Or, you're driving in traffic, and some person up ahead randomly hits their brakes because someone swaps lanes 100' ahead of them. The person behind them brakes a little more, the person behind them brakes a bit more than that, and so on. Studies have shown that this exact behavior is what causes many traffic jams.

FUTURE:

Most cars are being driven at 70mph autonomously. They are all in the righthand lane (following the law). This allows you to get in the left lane (which is relatively clear) and pass them at your leisure.

Or, you're in traffic and most people are using autonomous cars. Instead of someone hitting the brakes randomly, the cars simply cruise along at the speed limit. This prevents many traffic jams, allowing you to get where you're going.

_________________

I get that YOU won't want to sit in a car that drives itself. Me either. But, it'll be nice when I can drive my car, and have the people that can't drive worth a shit be driven by something that actually knows how to drive.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Well if you look at the JD Power ratings, Honda and Toyota aren't ranked that high anymore. In fact Honda won less awards than many other brands. Anyway, you're lucky, other people with Hondas aren't so fortunate. I encourage you to check the Honda/Toyota forums to get the true picture. BTW, the 2018 Mustang is supposed to be top notch for reliability according to Consumer Reports and it's a POS as evidenced in the forums / youtube, so mag reports should also be taken with a grain of salt. There is no guarantee with any make, or model.

Also, you're comparing a high performance car like the Camaro to a Civic. Apples and oranges. I'm sounding like a broken record, but check out the Civic Type-R forums. The car is basically a nightmare to a lot of owners, with one problem after another. Even the current gen Civic SI's are having issues. I'm not saying the Camaro doesn't have its share, but everyone isn't going to have the same experience. No warranty work on mine for the last 10 months (6k miles) of ownership.

Got to agree with those that say Honda / Toyota are overrated. But more so today than in the past. Yes, there was a time they were bullet proof, but not anymore. Kia and Hyundai was considering crap not that long ago, now they're ranked among the highest and their owners swear by them.

JD power is a joke with actual reliable numbers. They even make videos making fun of it because they are basically made up.

And I've worked for Honda for 16 years, I haven't seen one new SI come in for issues except for an AC line. We had one Type R with a engine harness recall. That's all. All the problems I've seen on the forums are mod related or abuse/misinformation. The type R motor is in accords and the si motor is in the CRV, they all are almost completely trouble free.

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by Skyset

https://business.financialpost.com/p...iving-vehicles

This is interesting....GM and Honda working together.

Maybe Honda can teach GM how to make reliable cars, and GM can teach Honda how to make powerful engines, and we could have something good

Honda can make powerful engines ( see IndyCar & Formula 1 ), they just don't put them in cars they sell!

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

JD power is a joke with actual reliable numbers. They even make videos making fun of it because they are basically made up.

And I've worked for Honda for 16 years, I haven't seen one new SI come in for issues except for an AC line. We had one Type R with a engine harness recall. That's all. All the problems I've seen on the forums are mod related or abuse/misinformation. The type R motor is in accords and the si motor is in the CRV, they all are almost completely trouble free.

So lets apply that logic to this forum then. Let's ignore the diff, loose end links and a8 shudder issues. That's all misinformation and abuse. Oh, the Honda transmission failures that plagued the Accord, all abuse. C'mon be serious. You have seen one Type-R come in?

How many are there driving around to begin with? Not that many. I've seen about 2 since they were released. And there are other trouble spots besides the motor.

The Civic type R reported problems by multiple users.
-overheating
-2nd gear grinding
-flywheel ring gear coming apart
-issues with the rev-matching
-engine coolant / oil leaks
-loose front grille
-issues with clutch master cylinder delay

https://www.civicx.com/forums/issues...rranty-tsb.67/

If you really think all of that is just misinformation and abuse, I can't take you seriously.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

So lets apply that logic to this forum then. Let's ignore the diff, loose end links and a8 shudder issues. That's all misinformation and abuse. Oh, the Honda transmission failures that plagued the Accord, all abuse. C'mon be serious. You have seen one Type-R come in?

How many are there driving around to begin with? Not that many. I've seen about 2 since they were released. And there are other trouble spots besides the motor.

The Civic type R reported problems by multiple users.
-overheating
-2nd gear grinding
-flywheel ring gear coming apart
-issues with the rev-matching
-engine coolant / oil leaks
-loose front grille
-issues with clutch master cylinder delay

https://www.civicx.com/forums/issues...rranty-tsb.67/

If you really think all of that is just misinformation and abuse, I can't take you seriously.

There are a lot driving around, we've sold 8 the first year and there are 3 more in town from other dealers.

Clutch master cylinder is a factory design to save the drivetrain. It's not an issue. Loose front grill is clips breaking when people hit things with the low front splitter. Overheating is with mostly modded cars at the track. Beyond that I just see isolated issues. You have to understand the demographic that purchase and drive those cars.

Accord trans issues? You mean from 98-02? The one they extended the warranty and goodwilled many well over 100k miles? You have to reach that far back to find a known problem?

You don't have to take me seriously, I deal with it everyday and know the real issues. Are there more I don't know of? Of course, but I've not seen them, heard of them, or see any bulletins relating to them. I take people crying on the internet with a grain of salt because you usually are not hearing the whole story. For every issue you hear about online there is 100 other drivers happy and not saying a word.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

There are a lot driving around, we've sold 8 the first year and there are 3 more in town from other dealers.

Clutch master cylinder is a factory design to save the drivetrain. It's not an issue. Loose front grill is clips breaking when people hit things with the low front splitter. Overheating is with mostly modded cars at the track. Beyond that I just see isolated issues. You have to understand the demographic that purchase and drive those cars.

Accord trans issues? You mean from 98-02? The one they extended the warranty and goodwilled many well over 100k miles? You have to reach that far back to find a known problem?

You don't have to take me seriously, I deal with it everyday and know the real issues. Are there more I don't know of? Of course, but I've not seen them, heard of them, or see any bulletins relating to them. I take people crying on the internet with a grain of salt because you usually are not hearing the whole story. For every issue you hear about online there is 100 other drivers happy and not saying a word.

You sound like the typical dealer service advisor, always in denial and always blaming the owner. Being in denial doesn't mean the issues don't exist. And as far as those listed being isolated? All the pissed off owners will disagree. Obviously you did not read the threads.

I don't have all day to list the multitude of TSBs, recalls and lawsuits regarding Honda's vehicles. They're easily viewable on the web. Unless you think those are made up too. There is even a site dedicated to Honda's problems: hondaproblems.com

While I agree there are some people that abuse and over exaggerate problems, many issues that forums uncover are real and often end in TSBs, recalls or lawsuits.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

You sound like the typical dealer service advisor, always in denial and always blaming the owner. Being in denial doesn't mean the issues don't exist. And as far as those listed being isolated? All the pissed off owners will disagree. Obviously you did not read the threads.

I don't have all day to list the multitude of TSBs, recalls and lawsuits regarding Honda's vehicles. They're easily viewable on the web. Unless you think those are made up too. There is even a site dedicated to Honda's problems: hondaproblems.com

While I agree there are some people that abuse and over exaggerate problems, many issues that forums uncover are real and often end in TSBs, recalls or lawsuits.

Who said Hondas don't have TSB's? Or problems in general? If they didn't have problems and issues I wouldn't have a job.

I'm not an advisor, not in denial, and not blaming the owners. The post was in regards to one brand being reliable in comparison to others. I was giving first hand experience working at many different dealers and owning 57 cars on which brand I believe is more reliable and built better.

[GelflingEssence]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Well if you look at the JD Power ratings, Honda and Toyota aren't ranked that high anymore. In fact Honda won less awards than many other brands. Anyway, you're lucky, other people with Hondas aren't so fortunate. I encourage you to check the Honda/Toyota forums to get the true picture. BTW, the 2018 Mustang is supposed to be top notch for reliability according to Consumer Reports and it's a POS as evidenced in the forums / youtube, so mag reports should also be taken with a grain of salt. There is no guarantee with any make, or model.

Also, you're comparing a high performance car like the Camaro to a Civic. Apples and oranges. I'm sounding like a broken record, but check out the Civic Type-R forums. The car is basically a nightmare to a lot of owners, with one problem after another. Even the current gen Civic SI's are having issues. I'm not saying the Camaro doesn't have its share, but everyone isn't going to have the same experience. No warranty work on mine for the last 10 months (6k miles) of ownership.

Got to agree with those that say Honda / Toyota are overrated. But more so today than in the past. Yes, there was a time they were bullet proof, but not anymore. Kia and Hyundai was considering crap not that long ago, now they're ranked among the highest and their owners swear by them.

You've watched too many "Real People" commercials. Those JD Power awards are bought and paid for.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

You sound like the typical dealer service advisor, always in denial and always blaming the owner. Being in denial doesn't mean the issues don't exist. And as far as those listed being isolated? All the pissed off owners will disagree. Obviously you did not read the threads.

I don't have all day to list the multitude of TSBs, recalls and lawsuits regarding Honda's vehicles. They're easily viewable on the web. Unless you think those are made up too. There is even a site dedicated to Honda's problems: hondaproblems.com

While I agree there are some people that abuse and over exaggerate problems, many issues that forums uncover are real and often end in TSBs, recalls or lawsuits.

You have to admit the clientele of the Civic Type R is the Fast And Furious crowd. The Brian Spilners of the world. Modify and drive any car in the world like that and you’re asking for trouble. I’m certain the CTR is much more reliable from the factory and driven with some reasonable common sense than you make it out to be.

GM has a website for their problems. So does Hyundai/Kia, Ford, FCA, BMW, VW/AG, M-B, Toyota/Lexus, and every other mfg on the planet. That’s nothing earth shattering.

You sound like a scorned Civic owner who blew up your engine under warranty downshifting into 2nd at 100 mph and wants Honda to pay for it

Oh wait a minute...... isn’t that “Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should..... you almost had me? You never had me..... because you never had your car!”

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by GelflingEssence

You've watched too many "Real People" commercials. Those JD Power awards are bought and paid for.

Maybe, not the point really. He claimed Honda / Toyota are always rated on top. I showed him otherwise.