[iroc_but5.0sdont]

Originally Posted by aestil

Please provide your hard data on the majority of new car owners you have surveyed to make such a statement.

kk thx

The kids that I work around

My family

The people at the local car meets

The people at the track

My friends

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by suzook

Based on the sales numbers, you were in the minority. The sales #'s of the gen4 just flat out sucked. It was decently built, and a quick car, but ugly.

Looks are a personal opinion. I know plenty of people who liked the way they look.

But, I find it funny how you equate sales numbers to how people perceive a cars looks in a thread about how 6th gen sales have been pretty crappy.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by merlin803

Only they know what their strategy is. Why would they be adding another shift if sales already were below where they were expecting?

What might explain it is if they are just now planning to finally start actually advertising and pushing to sell them.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I looked up the closest 10 dealerships to me and they only have 0-3 of each iteration of available 6th Gen Camaro's.

The bottom line is none of us know what their plan is or if they are disappointed in sales, all we have to go by is what they have said and the actions that they have taken up to this point and those things seem to indicate that they don't think it is an issue.

So why sweat it until they indicate otherwise?

The third shift was announced in January in anticipation of higher spring sales. Those sales haven't come and they should have. April sales were lower than expected, now May sales are even lower than were they should be for a brand new, next gen car.

Since 2010, May has been Camaro's #1 sales month. Being off of the average by such a margin is not just because of two less selling days and it is indicative of larger problems.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Camaro should be cheaper than the Mustang, even on the Alpha with the performance it offers.

It's a parts bin car. It's the 3rd iteration of the Alpha platform. The LTx is used in a big chunk of GM products.

We keep hearing how using existing platforms and power trains keeps the costs down but that never actually pans out.

Yes, the Camaro offers better performance but for how long? The Mustang won't sit still. The Coyote will get an update probably in the next year or so and be making as much, if not more power, than the Camaro.

If sales are slumping now, what is going to happen when the performance gap is much closer?

Exactly. GM is price gouging on a parts bin car. I mean, I'm a capitalist so I say good for them if it's panning out in the market. Apparently it is if you believe their press releases.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Posaune

The third shift was announced in January in anticipation of higher spring sales. Those sales haven't come and they should have. April sales were lower than expected, now May sales are even lower than were they should be for a brand new, next gen car.

Since 2010, May has been Camaro's #1 sales month. Being off of the average by such a margin is not just because of two less selling days and it is indicative of larger problems.

With a 20% drop on by far the leading competitor in the segment, there's definitely market conditions impacting here too. Not taking anything away from your point.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Posaune

The third shift was announced in January in anticipation of higher spring sales. Those sales haven't come and they should have. April sales were lower than expected, now May sales are even lower than were they should be for a brand new, next gen car.

Since 2010, May has been Camaro's #1 sales month. Being off of the average by such a margin is not just because of two less selling days and it is indicative of larger problems.

"it is indicative of larger problems." Or, they changed their business model and you are comparing apples to oranges.

And the third shift was "announced" in January but according to this article had not been implemented yet as of April -

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/04/...t-goes-online/

Also, note the part about:

"However, even with poor numbers from Cadillac, the Camaro has been a saving grace. Since the 2016 Camaro moved to Lansing last summer, the plant was able to rehire the 450 employees it laid off in January of 2015.
“We continue to see the positive effects of General Motors’ continued investment in Lansing,” said Lansing Mayor Virg Bernero. “We knew the Camaro coming to Lansing meant big things, and it does – jobs, jobs, jobs.”

If GM has not indicated that they are worried and they HAVE indicated that they changed their business model for Camaro's......

[v6sonoma]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Over the last few months when some of us questioned the slow sales, the excuses were, "wait until the T4 available," "wait until the convertible is available," wait until production is fully ramped up."

Now it's wait until the 2017s come out and that people are waiting for the 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 and build quality to improve?

Biggest issue I see is if sales are slower I'm guessing models like the ZL1 and Z28 (if it gets made) are going to be priced higher since the expected volume will be even lower.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by Thor142

Exactly. GM is price gouging on a parts bin car. I mean, I'm a capitalist so I say good for them if it's panning out in the market. Apparently it is if you believe their press releases.

Look beyond the platform (Alpha)..look at the cost of the components.

The LT1 is more expensive, to the tune of about $3,000 (IIRC) than the LS3, the transmission I'm sure is more expensive than the 6L80E (in the auto's case), the SS's dash has that big reconfigurable display, etc.

As I've said before...the mistake they made was making RS standard and making the base SS too content heavy. If the 1SS had the same dash as the 1LT (the analog gauges and the small DIC), no RS standard (IE normal headlights) and the smaller center dash screen and no HUD, it would have made the base entry point on the 1SS about 35,700...ish, maybe 36,000.

Bundle the HUD and reconfigurable dash in with an RS package if needed on the 1SS.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

Biggest issue I see is if sales are slower I'm guessing models like the ZL1 and Z28 (if it gets made) are going to be priced higher since the expected volume will be even lower.

I'm reasonably confident that the 2017 ZL1 price is set and components ordered and being produced. If there will be a price hike due to anticipated lower volumes, it would be on 2018's more than likely.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

With a 20% drop on by far the leading competitor in the segment, there's definitely market conditions impacting here too. Not taking anything away from your point.

There were definite market conditions for many manufacturers and models. A drop in Mustang was expected given the huge sales last year for the new Mustang. Year two typically drops slightly.

[ThatRedFirebird]

I would bet the refreshed 5th torpedoed some sales. It looks (to the average person) a whole lot like the sixth gen in general appearance. Maybe 10% as dramatic a change as the Mustang.

It's no small wonder a lot of people don't even know it's an entirely new generation.

I honestly think a ~$1500 MSRP price cut across the board would make a large difference, but I doubt that would ever happen. All promotional stuff should also be done with the car (and it's LEDs) on to emphasize that, since I think that's the most obvious visual difference.

On second thought, what promotional stuff? Outside MotorTrend I haven't seen any.

[andrec10]

They need to advertise more. I have seen almost 0. Plus, it makes my car more unique!

[iroc_but5.0sdont]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Mustang is just as much a refresh as the Camaro, though the parts they did change made a bigger difference.

One thing I do have to say about the 6th gen Mustang launch was they made it a big event. It was revealed in multiple places and I think it was even on TV. The Camaro event was much more restricted and wasn't broadcast.

Combine the launch with a Mustang that finally has a modern suspension, a new look that carries over the Mustang style but tweaks it enough to look brand new and a cheaper price. It's no surprise the Mustang sells well.

The Mustang is the better volume car but it doesn't perform as well as the new Camaro.

here is the problem

1. The average person notices right away the Mustang is a new design.

2. When the Camaro was introduced people said this.

I'm glad they didn't stray away from the current design

They did not need to change the Camaro because it's selling so well.

Glad they did not mess it up like Ford did the Mustang.

I'm glad it still looks like a Camaro.

3. When The Mustang was introduced people said this.

The Mustang is so ugly

The Mustang looks like a fusion

Ford really dropped the ball on this one.

The Mustang looks like a Honda

Remember all those comments? I sure do and with all the comments I read and heard from people there was a lot more changed about the Mustang.

[suzook]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

Looks are a personal opinion. I know plenty of people who liked the way they look.

But, I find it funny how you equate sales numbers to how people perceive a cars looks in a thread about how 6th gen sales have been pretty crappy.

A lot of people thing the gen6 is ugly, so maybe that is affecting the sales numbers. Its a good possibility.