[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by LesserO2Evils

Sorry, but anyone who proudly, and loudly proclaims their love for Jaguar- one of the most notoriously UNreliable brands currently in existence, has piss poor judgement in the 1st place. Their pretentious, British opinion means less to me than thePill's.

Naaa....nobody's opinion means less than that.

[volsfan0911]

Lemme get this straight - goes like stink, has one of the great V-8's left on the face of the Earth with enough noise to piss off the neighbors properly, a real honest-to-Gawd manual transmission with rev match to compensate for my pathetic lack of heel and toe expertise along with Brembos, great seats, latest gen mag shocks and is all built upon the alpha platform which has been universally lauded for it's stiffness and light weight.

And now it's "too refined"? Crap, sign me up. Other than my build running around $46K fully tricked out, it all sounds good to me.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

"too composed for a muscle car"

"Just the whole thing feels a little isolated from the road. Especially the cars fitted with the ‘MR’ adaptive damping. You want that kind of splendid isolation in a Cadillac, but you want something more raw in a muscle car. The Camaros riding on the regular suspension got out of shape a lot earlier and had more body movement, which was better."
"We prefer our muscle cars a little more raw than this"

So you want the car to not handle as good, have some body roll with that corner, and not be as "refined"....right, sure you do.

I used to enjoy TG TV show until the fat guy got fired for hitting his Boss for a lack of a good steak on his plate. That was stupid
Those TG Brits never appreciated US sport cars like the Corvettes, Vipers, CTS-V, etc. that many times even at Nurburgring showed that they could beat the crap out of many exotic Euro & Japan exports that cost twice.
I used to drive a Porsche 911, but always recognized Corvette C6's to be a very strong match. I also have a deep respect for the performance of the late 1LE, Z28, Zl1 & also for the new 6th. gen Camaro SS, just have doubts over the longevity of the new powertrains LT1, LT4 & A8 transmission compared to the late GM 's powertrains that were strong like armored tanks without any complains from their owners.

[mt3130]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I used to enjoy TG TV show until the fat guy got fired for hitting his Boss for a lack of a good steak on his plate. That was stupid
Those TG Brits never appreciated US sport cars like the Corvettes, Vipers, CTS-V, etc. that many times even at Nurburgring showed that they could beat the crap out of many exotic Euro & Japan exports that cost twice.
I used to drive a Porsche 911, but always recognized Corvette C6's to be a very strong match. I also have a deep respect for the performance of the late 1LE, Z28, ZZl1 & also for the new 6th. gen Camaro SS, just have doubts over the longevity of the new powertrains LT1, LT4 & A8 transmission compared to the late GM 's powertrains that were strong like armored tanks without any complains from their owners.

I think the engine and transmission concerns are legit. There have been engine issues on a startlingly high number of magazine reviews, and the transmission definitely overheats when run hard. GM is adding cooling for the transmission to the C7, and hopefully they prevent it from being an issue with the Camaro.

I'm curious to see what happens from here with all manufacturers, now that everyone is moving to direct injection. Is everyone going to move to a combo of direct and port injection? Do they figure out how to hit power and efficiency targets without direct injection altogether?

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I used to enjoy TG TV show until the fat guy got fired for hitting his Boss for a lack of a good steak on his plate. That was stupid
Those TG Brits never appreciated US sport cars like the Corvettes, Vipers, CTS-V, etc. that many times even at Nurburgring showed that they could beat the crap out of many exotic Euro & Japan exports that cost twice.
I used to drive a Porsche 911, but always recognized Corvette C6's to be a very strong match. I also have a deep respect for the performance of the late 1LE, Z28, Zl1 & also for the new 6th. gen Camaro SS, just have doubts over the longevity of the new powertrains LT1, LT4 & A8 transmission compared to the late GM 's powertrains that were strong like armored tanks without any complains from their owners.

When the LS engines came out there were some issues, yet look how revered they are now. There is no reason to believe these new GenV motors will be any less stellar than the GenIVs. The number of problems is really kind of small when you consider how many are on the roads already.

Originally Posted by mt3130

I think the engine and transmission concerns are legit. There have been engine issues on a startlingly high number of magazine reviews, and the transmission definitely overheats when run hard. GM is adding cooling for the transmission to the C7, and hopefully they prevent it from being an issue with the Camaro.

I'm curious to see what happens from here with all manufacturers, now that everyone is moving to direct injection. Is everyone going to move to a combo of direct and port injection? Do they figure out how to hit power and efficiency targets without direct injection altogether?

Poor cooling is not a sign of a bad transmission. The 8L90 is probably one of the toughest transmissions out today. As for the engines, keep in mind that every reviewer doesn't get a "straight from the factory" car. They are swapping a few cars around for everyone to review. This is especially true for the Vettes, which are low volume cars. Everyone wants to concentrate on the few problems but they forget all the good stuff because it isn't news/internet/tweet worthy.

[mt3130]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Poor cooling is not a sign of a bad transmission. The 8L90 is probably one of the toughest transmissions out today. As for the engines, keep in mind that every reviewer doesn't get a "straight from the factory" car. They are swapping a few cars around for everyone to review. This is especially true for the Vettes, which are low volume cars. Everyone wants to concentrate on the few problems but they forget all the good stuff because it isn't news/internet/tweet worthy.

I agree with what you are saying. That's why it hasn't deterred me from buying the car. I am far more concerned with the long term effects of DI than I am with the possibility of overheating the transmission. My car will never see the track, so it will probably never come close to being an issue for me.

The design of the 8L90 may very well be inadequate for cooling, but as long as GM comes up with a solution (which it appears they have), then I'm not worried about it. My luck with GM (and cars in general) has been very good. My dad had a 94 Buick that had over 300,000 miles before it went to the scrap heap. My mom had a 79 Impala that's still on the road today.

I had a Cobalt with one of the "deadly ignition switches." I drove that car for 7 years without a single issue. It was obvious that the ignition switched positions easier than any car I've ever driven. The solution was simple, I only put two keys (car and house) on my key ring.

My experience so far is that all cars have minor issues, but they all last a while if maintained properly. I just prefer to stick with the brands that have fewer things that are deemed maintenance.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Poor cooling is not a sign of a bad transmission.

What?

It absolutely is. The 8L90 is a very tough transmission but in regards to cooling it's not designed well. The ZF 8 speeds found in the 2015 Dodge cars, BMW's and Mercs are equally as tough and capable yet do not suffer from similar and well published overheating and safety nanny issues.

I'm not saying the 8L90 is a bad transmission..it's actually quite good in most areas, but to say that "poor cooling is not a sign of a bad transmission" is completely breaking the bounds of credulity.

[kain279]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

"too composed for a muscle car"

"Just the whole thing feels a little isolated from the road. Especially the cars fitted with the ‘MR’ adaptive damping. You want that kind of splendid isolation in a Cadillac, but you want something more raw in a muscle car. The Camaros riding on the regular suspension got out of shape a lot earlier and had more body movement, which was better."
"We prefer our muscle cars a little more raw than this"

So you want the car to not handle as good, have some body roll with that corner, and not be as "refined"....right, sure you do.

Yeah, if they got what they are asking for in this review they would have raked it over the coals like they always do.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

What?

It absolutely is. The 8L90 is a very tough transmission but in regards to cooling it's not designed well. The ZF 8 speeds found in the 2015 Dodge cars, BMW's and Mercs are equally as tough and capable yet do not suffer from similar and well published overheating and safety nanny issues.

I'm not saying the 8L90 is a bad transmission..it's actually quite good in most areas, but to say that "poor cooling is not a sign of a bad transmission" is completely breaking the bounds of credulity.

So, if you a manufacturer put the LT1 in a car with a radiator that was 1'X1'X1" it would probably overheat, right? Would that be a problem with the LT1 engine or the design of the system to cool it? The problems we have seen so far with the 8L90 have been around the design of the system to cool it, not the transmission itself. That's why they changed the cooling system for the 2016 Vettes instead of changing the transmission.

[Clearly_Canadian]

Originally Posted by bdavies11

Do other cars/transmissions with paddle shifters have a delay? If not, why does the camaro/vette have a delay?

I found the delay really anoying in the lambo gallardo while I was in vegas a few months ago. It made me wonder if it was "detuned" cause it was a rental track car or if that is the way it is. I also had the privilage of racing a ferrari back to back and it was alot cleaner and crisp in the shifts.

I have never had a paddle shift car to compare it to, however, I did enjoy the experience of the paddle shift and I will be trying one out before I make my final purchase in March for the camaro.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

So, if you a manufacturer put the LT1 in a car with a radiator that was 1'X1'X1" it would probably overheat, right? Would that be a problem with the LT1 engine or the design of the system to cool it? The problems we have seen so far with the 8L90 have been around the design of the system to cool it, not the transmission itself. That's why they changed the cooling system for the 2016 Vettes instead of changing the transmission.

But do you know why the 8L90 runs so hot that it needs multiple transmission coolers?

It's because it has a small, fast spinning torque converter and the case is very small, reducing it's ability to radiate heat away from the guts of the transmission.

It's a good transmission that was designed poorly when it comes to thermal load and cooling..in part due to package requirements for the C7, ATS and other Alpha platforms.

Heat seems to be a common issue with the latest generation GM cars.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Those TG Brits never appreciated US sport cars like the Corvettes, Vipers, CTS-V, etc. that many times even at Nurburgring showed that they could beat the crap out of many exotic Euro & Japan exports that cost twice.

[Fact]The hamster is a closet 'merican. [/Fact]

--kC

[Imp]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

What?

It absolutely is. The 8L90 is a very tough transmission but in regards to cooling it's not designed well.

Early Subaru WRXs ('02-'04) were known to have "bad transmissions" (i.e, blowing out 2nd gear mostly from hamfisting the 1-2 shift). THOSE early WRXs got a reputation for a bad transmission because it couldn't take the abuse. (And opening up the tranny to fix was quite costly, and once opened, never really felt the same).

If all it takes is a little extra cooling, or air direction to cool it, then it's not really a "bad transmission", but a badly cooled transmission.

--kC

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

But do you know why the 8L90 runs so hot that it needs multiple transmission coolers?

It's because it has a small, fast spinning torque converter and the case is very small, reducing it's ability to radiate heat away from the guts of the transmission.

It's a good transmission that was designed poorly when it comes to thermal load and cooling..in part due to package requirements for the C7, ATS and other Alpha platforms.

Heat seems to be a common issue with the latest generation GM cars.

Yet the Silverado/Sierra pairs use this same transmission (even with the max trailering package) and I haven't seen a single review mention a problem. There are many more of those on the roads than all the other cars combined.