V6 & E85

[AvengedNick]

Can you convert your V6 LLT to run on E85??

[NOT A 45]

Originally Posted by AvengedNick

Can you convert your V6 LLT to run on E85??

The LFX in the 2012 is already E85 capable. The ECM is not programmed for it even though it calculates fuel alcohol content. I would think if you swapped everything fuel related from the LFX to your LLT and had the ECM recalibrated it would be possible. Just a guess though.

[gtstorey]

A quick search shows that the llt and lfx uses different ecm's and at least some indication that the llt can be tuned to run on E85 but doesn't have the capability to use a flex fuel sensor to real time adjust for ethanol content. There is only one post on HP Tuners that contained both the terms LLT and E85 so not much help there.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478727

[NOT A 45]

Originally Posted by gtstorey

A quick search shows that the llt and lfx uses different ecm's and at least some indication that the llt can be tuned to run on E85 but doesn't have the capability to use a flex fuel sensor to real time adjust for ethanol content. There is only one post on HP Tuners that contained both the terms LLT and E85 so not much help there.

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478727

The LFX ecm doesn't need a flex fuel sensor. None of our flex fuel cars/trucks have used a sensor since about 2004. The ecm has the capability of calculating it on it's own using fuel rate, trim data, and o2 readings.

[gtstorey]

Originally Posted by NOT A 45

The LFX ecm doesn't need a flex fuel sensor. None of our flex fuel cars/trucks have used a sensor since about 2004. The ecm has the capability of calculating it on it's own using fuel rate, trim data, and o2 readings.

I guess a better way of saying it then is that the Bosch ECM isn't capable or at least HP Tuners hasn't unlocked those tables.
This is just based upon some quick internet searches so I may have missed something, but I figure the ECM is similar to the Bosch ECM that came in the LNF cobalts that as far as I know, no one has been able to tune for flexfuel.

[Dusk_2SS]

Does Biden still plan on upping the standard gas to 15% ethanol this summer? How's that going to effect our custom tunes?

[redcoats1976]

i thought all this meant was E15 would be more available this summer,not that "normal" fuel would all be increasing in ethanol content.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by Dusk_2SS

Does Biden still plan on upping the standard gas to 15% ethanol this summer? How's that going to effect our custom tunes?

His handlers are only planning to extend the availability of E15 on those specific pumps into the summer. Which is odd considering E15 around here is already available year round. Must be seasonal in other parts of the country.

[silversleeper]

There is a "virtual ethanol sensor" setting you can easily turn on in the ECM on HP Tuners. I did experiment with that thinking why buy a sensor and wire it in and retune when that's all you need to do.
I should have taken some logs and Dragy results to verify my opinions but didn't at the time.
My feeling is that running without the tune tables filled in and a sensor is that the OEM non-sensor just defaults to something like a Limp Mode. It does run but butt dyno felt soggy. Not as crisp or snappy like on gas when running e85. I believe it doesn't self tune to optimum air fuel ratio or advance the timing that can be done on proper e85 tuning with a sensor. It ran smoothly but it wasn't what I was looking for.
Adding the sensor kit with wire to ECM and optimum AF ratios and Timing advance felt stronger.
Is it timing for a stupid pun now? Your Mileage May Vary YMMV.

[gtstorey]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

There is a "virtual ethanol sensor" setting you can easily turn on in the ECM on HP Tuners. I did experiment with that thinking why buy a sensor and wire it in and retune when that's all you need to do.
I should have taken some logs and Dragy results to verify my opinions but didn't at the time.
My feeling is that running without the tune tables filled in and a sensor is that the OEM non-sensor just defaults to something like a Limp Mode. It does run but butt dyno felt soggy. Not as crisp or snappy like on gas when running e85. I believe it doesn't self tune to optimum air fuel ratio or advance the timing that can be done on proper e85 tuning with a sensor. It ran smoothly but it wasn't what I was looking for.
Adding the sensor kit with wire to ECM and optimum AF ratios and Timing advance felt stronger.
Is it timing for a stupid pun now? Your Mileage May Vary YMMV.

I was wondering why all of the HP Tuner forums seemed to center around adding the sensor, and that most of the people on here added a sensor when they went to E85.

[NOT A 45]

Considering he has a V6 car, I assumed he was looking for flexibility and not really a performance gain as most do when converting.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by NOT A 45

Considering he has a V6 car, I assumed he was looking for flexibility and not really a performance gain as most do when converting.

That's a good point.
Now watch people's hair get on fire when I mention you can mix in 25-50% or more e85 in your tank and just run it in most cars. It will self adjust just like the non-sensor flex fuel cars. If it idles or starts rough then time to use less e85. It's easier to experiement if you do this with e.g. 1/4 tank of gas and add 1/4 tank e85. That way if it doesn't like it, you can fill up with gas and it reduces the e85 mix in the tank.

My old driver Honda Civic doesn't like 50% + in the winter. It starts slower.
This is like saying you don't need to change oil every 3000mi to some people.
Edit:

Here is a video
He has incorrect info in parts of it. Ethanol isn't so corrosive, not like methanol. Here is a video on that topic
You Don't need special injectors lines and pumps for it. You might need larger capacity if you run full e85 and run wide open throttle with that.
He didn't allow for ECM learning to adjust for the extra flow needed. Sometimes there will be a check engine light if it expects gasoline ratios and the computer adjusts significantly for full e85. The CEL is saying something is off and not normal going on.
The lean mixture won't instantly ruin the engine like he is making it sound. Lean cruise is like 18.5 to one on gasoline if memory serves me.
The comments section is more informative than the first video. You can tell a few people have no clue about corrosive etc but many people have been running full or part e85. Running full e85 may or maynot cause CELs or poor running but typically a 25% or more mix of e85 hasn't cause problems in their (or my) experience.
E85 doesn't have a huge water problem like he says. It's good that water doesn't separate out like gasoline, sitting at the bottom of your tank rusting it then suddenly going through the fuel system causing your engine to stop running or running poorly. Ever look at e.g. HEET additive to help with water in the fuel? It's alcohol. So the water can mix back into the fuel. Yes water in the fuel might make slight rust problems in tanks and injectors but not nearly as big as most people make it out to be. Our gas already has 10% or more ethanol in it. Mix more in if you like or don't. I think we will be forced to go to at least 15% soon in most states.

[RS/SS '10]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

That's a good point.
Now watch people's hair get on fire when I mention you can mix in 25-50% or more e85 in your tank and just run it in most cars. It will self adjust just like the non-sensor flex fuel cars. If it idles or starts rough then time to use less e85. It's easier to experiement if you do this with e.g. 1/4 tank of gas and add 1/4 tank e85. That way if it doesn't like it, you can fill up with gas and it reduces the e85 mix in the tank.

My old driver Honda Civic doesn't like 50% + in the winter. It starts slower.
This is like saying you don't need to change oil every 3000mi to some people.

NOT A 45, what are your thoughts on this?

[NOT A 45]

Originally Posted by RS/SS '10

NOT A 45, what are your thoughts on this?

Ace, I hope a lot of people read and believe this! lol I'll be fixing check engine lights all day.....P0171&P0174 codes! For a non flex car about 15-20% seems to be the threshold when the ecm cannot richen the fuel mixture enough to compensate for the alcohol.

Furthermore, stainless fuel lines, fuel rails, different injectors......think of the money GM could save if none of that was necessary!

Some people believe everything they see on the internet...... reminds me of my teen age son! lol