Need lawyer? - ZL1 oil pump failure

nighttowl · 03-09-2024, 09:06 AM

Anyone know someone who had dealt with chevrolet?
I'm wondering do I have a case?
I have never had to do this before.

In short an expensive automobile exhibited oil pressure issues and I was denied the warranty service by PHC for a known issue 1 year before the warranty expired. The dealer said it was OK and everything was within limits. Shortly after the warranty expired the lack of the needed repair while it was under warranty destroyed the engine according to different dealership.

Chevrolet’s own internal documentation shows there was an issue and that this specific vehicle was affected.
Instead of repairing the vehicle under warranty, the dealership and Chevrolet field technician determined that it was fine to drive and come back if there is an issue.
Effectively I was denied service for a known issue with this specific engine in a known affected model year.
4k miles later the car had what dealership says is engine failure for the exact same issue that was not repaired.
Current dealership estimates $25k repair bill - the 30% GM offered for the repair.

The long story:
In summer of 2017 The ZL1 1LE came out, and I needed to have it. I already had 2 consecutive Camaros, a 10 SS/RS and a 14 ZL1. I scoured the country, and the closest that was available for sale was in Illinois. The car was purchased new from the out of state dealership (18 ZL1 1LE) and I ended up paying over $72k for it. The out the door cost delivered to CA where I was living it was $83k.
Its important to note that these cars are no longer manufactured, and currently this exact vehicle sells used for $85k.

The car drove perfectly until may of 2021.
It hit 13k miles, when the oil pressure started spiking really high a few times while driving then at idle dropped to half of what it was earlier that same day. Idle warm oil pressure was 39 psi, and now it was 20 psi and never went higher than 40 psi.
At the time the car had 14k miles on it and was in warranty at the time.
I took it to a dealership with the reason being the low oil pressure in California (Chevrolet of Puente Hills).
I was concerned because these specific engines have known issues with defective oil pumps, particularly the earlier cars, which this is.
There are publicly available internal technical service bulletins from Chevrolet that document that these specific cars with the LT4 engine are known to have defects with the LT4 engine’s oil pump.
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=12041
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...64789-9999.pdf

The dealership rep texted me saying that they had a field technician from Chevrolet coming out to look at the issue. They had it for around a week. Finally I was texted that it was ready to pick up. The rep told me that the screw on oil filter wasnt installed properly, which I immediately identified as BS. They changed the oil and filter and pushed me out the door and told me it was fixed. Once I was about 3 miles away sitting at a red light I noticed the oil pressure was still at 20psi. I complained via text to but they would not budge on the repair, stating the car was within limits. I still have the text messages. I then called them with the same result. I stated it may be within limits for a car with 200k miles on it, but not a new vehicle, then asked what the oil pressure of any vehicle on thier lot was. I stated that not fixing the car will destroy the engine. They told me to drive the car and that it was fine.
Effectively I was being denied warranty service when it was completely obvious there was an issue that had the potential to destroy the engine. GM's price for a replacement engine is $17077, plus tax, shipping and install.
The powertrain warranty expired last year, I did not notice it expired nor received any communication about renewing it, which is unusual.

A few weeks ago I was taking a package to FedEx and when leaving I received an alert on the dash stating “no oil pressure, pull over immediately”. I directly looked at the oil pressure gage and it was at zero with no movement.
The car currently has 18k miles on it. I pulled over as soon as I could once I seen the alert across the display. It maybe ran for about a minute after the alert came on the display.

I had it towed to my work because is was 9pm by the time the tow truck arrived then towed to the dealership the next day. The car is now at a the Legacy Chevrolet dealership in Waxahachie, Texas.
I told them that the car was taken to the dealership previously for low oil pressure in California (Puente Hills Chevrolet) wherer I was denied warranty service; and also that there were TSB’s concerning the issue with no oil pressure on these specific cars.
The dealership rep called me a few days later and said that they thought it was the sending unit. They said that when they ran it the car’s oil pressure was very low and varied wildly.
I asked them if they even looked at the TSB's for the car I told them about and he said he had no idea.
They replaced the sending unit and the records show the tech wrote that after replacing the sending unit the car had exhibited "near zero oil pressure".
The rep asked me if they wanted me to pull the pan on it to diagnose it, but also stated said they really did not want to because they suspect that the oil pan was probably full of metal.
He said they wanted over $4200 to replace the pump. I thought it was expensive for the work being done as chiltons cites 18.5 hours to replace the pump and put it back together.

I then called chevy customer service to open a case, citing the previous issue with oil pressure previously reported where I was denied service and also Chevrolet's own internal technical service bulletins for this exact issue.

They said to let the dealership work on the car to figure out what is wrong with it and they would get back to me. I then called Dan Hughson (Service advisor) at Legacy Chevrolet and told them to proceed with diagnosis.

Friday I received a call from chevy customer service concerning the case on my car. The dealership told Chevrolet customer service it needs a new engine.
Chevrolet customer service said they would pay 30% toward a repair and that “at this time” would not buy the vehicle back.
I went to the dealership to hear it from them.
The service rep said that they did not touch the car and they parked it in the back of the shop where it currently sits.
He said that it is not locked up and was only ran long enough to check for oil pressure but would not state any amount of time it was ran without oil pressure.

The engine is completely stock and has never been modified in any way.

My thoughts are that any modern engine should not have oil pump failures until at least 160-200k miles and absolutely should last longer than the original set of spark plugs.

Below are links to threads in a forum I frequent where others have had oil pump failures on ZL1’s with the LT4 engine.
This is only some of them, there are many more.
One guy who had 2 failed pumps in the same car said that Chevrolet exteneded his factory warranty to 7 years / 70k miles.
When my pump was failing I was offered nothing.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532479
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure – this guy had 2 pumps fail in the same ZL1.

ohsmily · 03-09-2024, 09:37 AM

What year?

nighttowl · 03-09-2024, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohsmily

What year?

18 ZL1 1LE

WhiteMale · 03-09-2024, 10:20 AM

I agree w you, but no idea where you go from there w no warranty left.

Fenmore · 03-09-2024, 10:25 AM

I am not so sure I would keep my car at this dealership, but if they did the damage to your engine then you pretty much have to until this issue is resolved.
What that dealership is telling you doesn't add up. Sounds like they are trying to hose you or they don't know what they are talking about or they are just giving you worst case scenario.
It doesn't cost 4k to get to the oil pump, that is for sure. And if they pan is "full of metal" then why haven't they confirmed that?
I still believe your claim is with GM and the original denial of the warranty work the first time when you had low pressure. You have good documentation of everything.
The problem with getting lawyers involved is the amount of money. You are going to spend $10-20k to litigate this and it will take months, possibly a year or more. I've been thru it, not with cars but other things and it doesn't work like TV.
I would start by escalating the issue with GM and getting upper management or even owners of the dealership involved to resolve the issue. Then get the states attorney general involved.

MT-SS1LE · 03-09-2024, 10:44 AM

Looking at those threads you listed, crazy that you were posting in them in 2018 and now you are dealing with this issue. I agree with others that your best bet is to ask GM for goodwill and try to get them to warranty the repair. If they stick to their guns, see if they will foot the bill for the engine and you pay for labor. Might be your best option. Good luck.

jfkheat · 03-09-2024, 11:02 AM

I believe the dealer your car is at, Legacy Chevrolet, is part of the same group that owns the Legacy Chevrolet near me. It is a dealer I had issues with a few weeks ago. They removed the reviews section of their Facebook page because they were getting so many bad reviews, including one from me.

Curr · 03-10-2024, 06:06 AM

Sounds like a lawyer is your 100% next step. Get one that's at a minimum a car guy. Best of luck with this, and I'm sorry you have to go through with it, with GM knowing that the oil pumps are potentially a ticking time bomb, even with their 'redesigns'.

Currently in the market for a ZL1, and will probably get a 22/23... and even so I'm getting a max powertrain extended warranty through Fidelity. 11 yr / 100k mile from today for the ZL1 I'm looking at is only $3k.

Z OH 6 · 03-10-2024, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curr

Sounds like a lawyer is your 100% next step. Get one that's at a minimum a car guy. Best of luck with this, and I'm sorry you have to go through with it, with GM knowing that the oil pumps are potentially a ticking time bomb, even with their 'redesigns'.

Currently in the market for a ZL1, and will probably get a 22/23... and even so I'm getting a max powertrain extended warranty through Fidelity. 11 yr / 100k mile from today for the ZL1 I'm looking at is only $3k.

No, these oil pumps are not ticking time bombs, 2019+ doesn't have this issue. It was a well known issue in the 2017 and 2018 models, GM released a tech bulletin about it. Most dealers have been very good about replacing it under warranty. The LT4 is a VERY reliable platform other than the 2017-2018 oil pumps. Some people have even managed to get more than 36K miles out of there's without needing a replacement yet.

george · 03-10-2024, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curr

Sounds like a lawyer is your 100% next step. Get one that's at a minimum a car guy. Best of luck with this, and I'm sorry you have to go through with it, with GM knowing that the oil pumps are potentially a ticking time bomb, even with their 'redesigns'.

Currently in the market for a ZL1, and will probably get a 22/23... and even so I'm getting a max powertrain extended warranty through Fidelity. 11 yr / 100k mile from today for the ZL1 I'm looking at is only $3k.

Can you send me info on the Fidelity Warranty? I have a GM extended until June 2027, but would like to see if I can get one past that date.

ZL1Kraut · 03-10-2024, 02:14 PM

Unfortunately I've gone through this with my 2017.

In the end they bought the car back after dealing with my lawyer, but it was a little bit of a battle. Only problem I can see is whether or not you're technically under warranty still?

Here is a link to my thread..

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560506

BMLMZ · 03-10-2024, 02:29 PM

Best bet is to just do a cam and have the shop doing the cam, swap the oil pump for the revised one. Cam install on these cars is like $5kish. You could easily get this fixed and the motor is probably fine otherwise.

BMLMZ · 03-10-2024, 02:32 PM

Also the oil pump failure is GOING TO happen on any 2017/18 car without the revised pump. Here's Matt from RPM to explain.

https://youtu.be/WSlLGK8oRz4?si=hnmXEiCTEgRJJB-3&t=365

KamZL1 · 03-10-2024, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMLMZ

Also the oil pump failure is GOING TO happen on any 2017/18 car without the revised pump. Here's Matt from RPM to explain.

https://youtu.be/WSlLGK8oRz4?si=hnmXEiCTEgRJJB-3&t=365

This is just objectively a false statement.

View Poll Results: Have you experienced partial or full oil pump failure in your LT4 powered vehicle?
Yes, chevrolet serviced it and warranted the work	6	14.63%
Yes, chevrolet denied warranty service	1	2.44%
Yes, I had it fixed but not by chevrolet	1	2.44%
No	33	80.49%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

03-09-2024, 09:06 AM	#1
nighttowl Sarcasm loading -------- Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: TX Posts: 1,808 View My Garage	Need lawyer? - ZL1 oil pump failure Anyone know someone who had dealt with chevrolet? I'm wondering do I have a case? I have never had to do this before. In short an expensive automobile exhibited oil pressure issues and I was denied the warranty service by PHC for a known issue 1 year before the warranty expired. The dealer said it was OK and everything was within limits. Shortly after the warranty expired the lack of the needed repair while it was under warranty destroyed the engine according to different dealership. Chevrolet’s own internal documentation shows there was an issue and that this specific vehicle was affected. Instead of repairing the vehicle under warranty, the dealership and Chevrolet field technician determined that it was fine to drive and come back if there is an issue. Effectively I was denied service for a known issue with this specific engine in a known affected model year. 4k miles later the car had what dealership says is engine failure for the exact same issue that was not repaired. Current dealership estimates $25k repair bill - the 30% GM offered for the repair. The long story: In summer of 2017 The ZL1 1LE came out, and I needed to have it. I already had 2 consecutive Camaros, a 10 SS/RS and a 14 ZL1. I scoured the country, and the closest that was available for sale was in Illinois. The car was purchased new from the out of state dealership (18 ZL1 1LE) and I ended up paying over $72k for it. The out the door cost delivered to CA where I was living it was $83k. Its important to note that these cars are no longer manufactured, and currently this exact vehicle sells used for $85k. The car drove perfectly until may of 2021. It hit 13k miles, when the oil pressure started spiking really high a few times while driving then at idle dropped to half of what it was earlier that same day. Idle warm oil pressure was 39 psi, and now it was 20 psi and never went higher than 40 psi. At the time the car had 14k miles on it and was in warranty at the time. I took it to a dealership with the reason being the low oil pressure in California (Chevrolet of Puente Hills). I was concerned because these specific engines have known issues with defective oil pumps, particularly the earlier cars, which this is. There are publicly available internal technical service bulletins from Chevrolet that document that these specific cars with the LT4 engine are known to have defects with the LT4 engine’s oil pump. https://gm-techlink.com/?p=12041 https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...64789-9999.pdf The dealership rep texted me saying that they had a field technician from Chevrolet coming out to look at the issue. They had it for around a week. Finally I was texted that it was ready to pick up. The rep told me that the screw on oil filter wasnt installed properly, which I immediately identified as BS. They changed the oil and filter and pushed me out the door and told me it was fixed. Once I was about 3 miles away sitting at a red light I noticed the oil pressure was still at 20psi. I complained via text to but they would not budge on the repair, stating the car was within limits. I still have the text messages. I then called them with the same result. I stated it may be within limits for a car with 200k miles on it, but not a new vehicle, then asked what the oil pressure of any vehicle on thier lot was. I stated that not fixing the car will destroy the engine. They told me to drive the car and that it was fine. Effectively I was being denied warranty service when it was completely obvious there was an issue that had the potential to destroy the engine. GM's price for a replacement engine is $17077, plus tax, shipping and install. The powertrain warranty expired last year, I did not notice it expired nor received any communication about renewing it, which is unusual. A few weeks ago I was taking a package to FedEx and when leaving I received an alert on the dash stating “no oil pressure, pull over immediately”. I directly looked at the oil pressure gage and it was at zero with no movement. The car currently has 18k miles on it. I pulled over as soon as I could once I seen the alert across the display. It maybe ran for about a minute after the alert came on the display. I had it towed to my work because is was 9pm by the time the tow truck arrived then towed to the dealership the next day. The car is now at a the Legacy Chevrolet dealership in Waxahachie, Texas. I told them that the car was taken to the dealership previously for low oil pressure in California (Puente Hills Chevrolet) wherer I was denied warranty service; and also that there were TSB’s concerning the issue with no oil pressure on these specific cars. The dealership rep called me a few days later and said that they thought it was the sending unit. They said that when they ran it the car’s oil pressure was very low and varied wildly. I asked them if they even looked at the TSB's for the car I told them about and he said he had no idea. They replaced the sending unit and the records show the tech wrote that after replacing the sending unit the car had exhibited "near zero oil pressure". The rep asked me if they wanted me to pull the pan on it to diagnose it, but also stated said they really did not want to because they suspect that the oil pan was probably full of metal. He said they wanted over $4200 to replace the pump. I thought it was expensive for the work being done as chiltons cites 18.5 hours to replace the pump and put it back together. I then called chevy customer service to open a case, citing the previous issue with oil pressure previously reported where I was denied service and also Chevrolet's own internal technical service bulletins for this exact issue. They said to let the dealership work on the car to figure out what is wrong with it and they would get back to me. I then called Dan Hughson (Service advisor) at Legacy Chevrolet and told them to proceed with diagnosis. Friday I received a call from chevy customer service concerning the case on my car. The dealership told Chevrolet customer service it needs a new engine. Chevrolet customer service said they would pay 30% toward a repair and that “at this time” would not buy the vehicle back. I went to the dealership to hear it from them. The service rep said that they did not touch the car and they parked it in the back of the shop where it currently sits. He said that it is not locked up and was only ran long enough to check for oil pressure but would not state any amount of time it was ran without oil pressure. The engine is completely stock and has never been modified in any way. My thoughts are that any modern engine should not have oil pump failures until at least 160-200k miles and absolutely should last longer than the original set of spark plugs. Below are links to threads in a forum I frequent where others have had oil pump failures on ZL1’s with the LT4 engine. This is only some of them, there are many more. One guy who had 2 failed pumps in the same car said that Chevrolet exteneded his factory warranty to 7 years / 70k miles. When my pump was failing I was offered nothing. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532479 https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...hlight=failure – this guy had 2 pumps fail in the same ZL1. __________________ "The salesman actually told me to stop getting it sideways during the test drive" 2018 MBM ZL1 1LE - Stock 2014 CRT ZL1 574 rwhp, 537 rwtq - SOLD 2010 IBM SS Camaro VVT L99 w/ TR6060 swap, 489 rwhp, 444 rwtq - SOLD Last edited by nighttowl; 03-12-2024 at 10:34 AM.

03-09-2024, 10:44 AM	#6
MT-SS1LE Drives: 2023 SS 1LE Sharkskin Join Date: Jun 2023 Location: MAGA MT Posts: 282	Looking at those threads you listed, crazy that you were posting in them in 2018 and now you are dealing with this issue. I agree with others that your best bet is to ask GM for goodwill and try to get them to warranty the repair. If they stick to their guns, see if they will foot the bill for the engine and you pay for labor. Might be your best option. Good luck. __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

03-10-2024, 06:06 AM	#8
Curr Probably doesn't like you Drives: 2022 WCT ZL1 M6 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Boston-ish Posts: 1,252	Sounds like a lawyer is your 100% next step. Get one that's at a minimum a car guy. Best of luck with this, and I'm sorry you have to go through with it, with GM knowing that the oil pumps are potentially a ticking time bomb, even with their 'redesigns'. Currently in the market for a ZL1, and will probably get a 22/23... and even so I'm getting a max powertrain extended warranty through Fidelity. 11 yr / 100k mile from today for the ZL1 I'm looking at is only $3k. __________________ I hope the 6th gen Camaro has a melodious horn trumpet. I'll tootel it at the ladies, yelling out "Hi hi." - RenegadeXR كافر ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ железобетонное очко Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. There is an unequal amount of good and bad in most things, the trick is to work out the ratio and act accordingly.

03-09-2024, 09:37 AM	#2
ohsmily Drives: '19 ZL1 1LE A10 ShadowGrayMetallic Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: California Posts: 185	What year?

03-09-2024, 10:20 AM	#4
WhiteMale Drives: 23 ZL1 A10 Rapid Blue Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: MO Posts: 1,992	I agree w you, but no idea where you go from there w no warranty left.

03-09-2024, 10:25 AM	#5
Fenmore Drives: 2017 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Feb 2024 Location: Indiana Posts: 42	I am not so sure I would keep my car at this dealership, but if they did the damage to your engine then you pretty much have to until this issue is resolved. What that dealership is telling you doesn't add up. Sounds like they are trying to hose you or they don't know what they are talking about or they are just giving you worst case scenario. It doesn't cost 4k to get to the oil pump, that is for sure. And if they pan is "full of metal" then why haven't they confirmed that? I still believe your claim is with GM and the original denial of the warranty work the first time when you had low pressure. You have good documentation of everything. The problem with getting lawyers involved is the amount of money. You are going to spend $10-20k to litigate this and it will take months, possibly a year or more. I've been thru it, not with cars but other things and it doesn't work like TV. I would start by escalating the issue with GM and getting upper management or even owners of the dealership involved to resolve the issue. Then get the states attorney general involved.

03-09-2024, 11:02 AM	#7
jfkheat jfkheat Drives: 2023 Rapid Blue ZL1 Join Date: Nov 2023 Location: South Carolina Posts: 180	I believe the dealer your car is at, Legacy Chevrolet, is part of the same group that owns the Legacy Chevrolet near me. It is a dealer I had issues with a few weeks ago. They removed the reviews section of their Facebook page because they were getting so many bad reviews, including one from me.

03-10-2024, 02:14 PM	#11
ZL1Kraut Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: New York Posts: 89	Unfortunately I've gone through this with my 2017. In the end they bought the car back after dealing with my lawyer, but it was a little bit of a battle. Only problem I can see is whether or not you're technically under warranty still? Here is a link to my thread.. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=560506

03-10-2024, 02:29 PM	#12
BMLMZ Drives: 2022 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2023 Location: Georgia Posts: 33	Best bet is to just do a cam and have the shop doing the cam, swap the oil pump for the revised one. Cam install on these cars is like $5kish. You could easily get this fixed and the motor is probably fine otherwise.

03-10-2024, 02:32 PM	#13
BMLMZ Drives: 2022 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2023 Location: Georgia Posts: 33	Also the oil pump failure is GOING TO happen on any 2017/18 car without the revised pump. Here's Matt from RPM to explain. https://youtu.be/WSlLGK8oRz4?si=hnmXEiCTEgRJJB-3&t=365

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