[Number 3]

Originally Posted by shogun37

You keep saying that as if it was true. Got any actual data to back it up? Or just delusion/wishful thinking?

Ford sells a buttload of Ecoboost Mustangs and Dodge the v6 and 5.8l v8 when anyone with two braincells would buy the 5.0 or 6.4l engines.
except they don't.

Let me be clear here.....I have no idea what your point is. I was quoting an earlier post.

But if I interpret you correctly you are suggesting that anyone who buys a Camaro or Mustang without a V8 does not have 2 brain cells?

Yikes!!!!!

As for data, you are correct. I've been asking for that for a lonnnnggggg time now. My guess is that like years past the V8 Camaro sells ok. It's overall volume sucks because people that just want a sporty coupe and DON"T actually want or need a V8 (many cars in this segment don't even offer a V8 btw) don't find the track/performance oriented trade offs beneficial in the Camaros favor.

As for numbers? You can look at the old playbook backin 2000/2001. The V8 volumes sold pretty well up til the end. What killed the car was the lack of volume in the lesser trim levels. Remember how the Mustang was stereotyped as a "secretary's car"? I would LOVE to see data on purchases based on age and sex vs. number of cylinders.

But again, you forced me to guess at what point you were making.

[CHASLT1]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

not surprising to me, a couple of local dealers to me didnt even know what i was talking about when I said LT1, People in higher sales positions also . So yeah, I walked away saying WTF.

The name LT1 has everyone messed up. Most dealers don't know jack and most think base 1LT v6. I jumped on mine as soon as i saw it on Auto trader at a local dealer.

[Venomcustom]

Most of my local dealers have been getting in plenty of LT1’s.

[Red Chief]

Chevy's been dropping the ball going back to the Gen 5, yes even when they were dominating in sales they could have been doing better.

1LE? ZL1? What does that mean to people compared to Boss, Shelby and Hellcat??

The 1LE should have been the Z/28 of the 5th gen. It was the track trim for the Camaro which had always been the domain of the Z/28.

ZL1? Again, that designation has no cultural history at all and even worse, it says nothing about the capabilities of the car. Boss 302 says quite a bit, both in history and capability.

Now while I've noticed more enthusiasm from people for my 2020 LT1 than my previous 2016 RS, nobody knows how much power it's packing. Really they just seem to like how it looks and the vibe it projects. It's too bad it doesn't have a memorable name to go along with it.

[Venomcustom]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Chevy's been dropping the ball going back to the Gen 5, yes even when they were dominating in sales they could have been doing better.

1LE? ZL1? What does that mean to people compared to Boss, Shelby and Hellcat??

The 1LE should have been the Z/28 of the 5th gen. It was the track trim for the Camaro which had always been the domain of the Z/28.

ZL1? Again, that designation has no cultural history at all and even worse, it says nothing about the capabilities of the car. Boss 302 says quite a bit, both in history and capability.

Now while I've noticed more enthusiasm from people for my 2020 LT1 than my previous 2016 RS, nobody knows how much power it's packing. Really they just seem to like how it looks and the vibe it projects. It's too bad it doesn't have a memorable name to go along with it.

Voodoo, predator, coyote.... etc. much cooler than LS3, LT1 or LT4.

[shogun37]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Let me be clear here.....I have no idea what your point is. I was quoting an earlier post.

my bad, I should have quoted @lt4camaro

But if I interpret you correctly you are suggesting that anyone who buys a Camaro or Mustang without a V8 does not have 2 brain cells?

I should have made the sarcasm tag a bit bigger...

[fattyz28]

I think due to the c8, the sales are up. The c7 and camaro were different yet similar due to the v8. I think the drastic differences between them now could actually help the sales. Remember now the camaro is the only way to get a v8 with a manual.

“Long live the stick”

[WhitesnakeSS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Camaro doesn’t sell because it’s a parts bin special that doesn’t stand out. It excels because the chassis is excellent. Nothing about it stands out, unless you know what to look for. It doesn’t make the most horsepower. It doesn’t have some flat plane crank or dct. It doesn’t have great names like Hellcat or Mach 1. GM dumped out the parts box and ignored everything people didn’t like. Then they rolled out the same variants and didn’t do anything to keep them competitive in the market place. They put in the minimum effort and are getting minimum results. It really shouldn’t surprise anyone.

That is near exactly what I been saying for several years.
We don't have the engine options the others do. We don't have the different packages as the others.
We are sucking hind tit on advertising (what advertising??)
Last time I mentioned this I was hit with "it takes to much money to reengineer such additions...GM just isn't gonna do it"
Well Heck....that is exactly why we are sinking in this market.!!!
Only reason I have the Camaro is because of the love for it because it isn't because of the options I get or marketing tools to entice me.
GM must revamp it's stance with the Camaro or the 6th gen will be it's last.
Doesn't take a engineer to figure that one out !

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by WhitesnakeSS

That is near exactly what I been saying for several years.
We don't have the engine options the others do. We don't have the different packages as the others.
We are sucking hind tit on advertising (what advertising??)
Last time I mentioned this I was hit with "it takes to much money to reengineer such additions...GM just isn't gonna do it"
Well Heck....that is exactly why we are sinking in this market.!!!
Only reason I have the Camaro is because of the love for it because it isn't because of the options I get or marketing tools to entice me.
GM must revamp it's stance with the Camaro or the 6th gen will be it's last.
Doesn't take a engineer to figure that one out !

Well GM has 4 engines available in the Camaro. You could argue adding the LT5 would be a great addition, but that is now out of production and would have resulted in a near $100,000 Camaro which is self defeating. Especially when GM will shortly have a $100,000 C8 that would destroy that Camaro.

Ford had 3 V8s to GM's 2. 4 if you include tuned versions of the Coyote for the Bullet and Mach 1. And Ford I think eliminated the V6 all together.

As for Stilanotos? Not sure how many V8s they actually have, but Hellcat and Demon are well above everything else, but they at least bump the volume by putting them in Dodge and Jeep SUVs.

The issue is would more "packages" and performance engine choices actually sell more cars profitably.

Putting the LT5 in a Camaro would require a new hood. Not a huge deal. But other than being taller it fits. Now does the driveline work? Don't know if the added torque/HP works in the Camaro.

But GM has rarely done tuned bumps in cars. GM could easily sell a recalibration in service if they chose to. They did it for the old 2.0T and it was a solid increase.

Also keep in mind, we expected (hoped) to see a Z28 in the Gen6 and whether it was never in the plan or eliminated from the plan we will probably never know.

We do have one package that is impressive in the Camaro and that is the across the board 1LE package, available across the board with all powertrains. That simply makes the Camaro even better but may not be the type of package you are thinking about.

As for advertising, I just saw an article the GM would be copying the C8 online videos with the Camaro. So like the C8 there won't be TV advertisements, but there will be a greater online presence for the Camaro.

In the end, the very soonest we could see a Gen7 or even a "major" refresh is 80 weeks away because there simply aren't any camoflauged cars on the road. That would be a Spring of 22 launch as a 23 model. Clearly they can build the Alpha 1 with Alpha 2, they are doing it today. So other than safety or emissions there is no reason to stop the Camaro unless sales just tank further. Unlike the Gen4, the Camaro now shares the over head with LGR and spreads the load. But that's just speculation on my part.

You bring up good points.

[WhitesnakeSS]

Thank you for the response Number3
I have went a little more in depth in the past on this but I don't have the time today.
You hit on many true points that many Camaro lovers all seem to have in common looking ahead.
I sure hope to see a future for the Camaro.
I have owned many Camaro's (I'm over 50 years old) but none I liked more than my 6th gen. Not even close.
Such a great car in so many ways to see it die when in my opinion it is actually at a pinacle in sheer power, performance and pure fun to drive.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by Thill444

They have all slid, but Camaro was hit harder, but remember GM also had a very impactful strike before Covid that also really hurt production.

You can't sell cars you don't have and if you look on Autotrader, for every Camaro for sale there are 3 times more Chargers/Challengers/Mustangs.

They just build more cars and offer bigger incentives. GM seems more content with building fewer cars but offering fewer incentives.

THAT is a very large deciding factor for me, and eventually helped lead me into a Camaro. Charger/Challenger (V8's) are OK cars, IMO but they are too big of a boat to be considered sporty IMO. I had considered a Mustang GT but everyone and their grandmother has either a Mustang or Corvette...they are everywhere. To me, that takes part of the fun out of owning the car. I don't want a car that I see three of every time I go for a drive. Camaro's seem on the rare side, particularly around me. The Mustang's also seem more laid back in comparison with the Camaro. The handling, the power delivery, the feel while sitting in the car, etc. ... the Camaro feels like it has a relation to the track.. whereas I do not get that vibe from the Mustang. I do still like the Mustang's but I don't think I'd ever buy one. C7's I really like but no back seat

[shogun37]

The Camaro and Mustang back-seats exist in the sense that they appear to be there but are otherwise useless unless you're 10yrs old or a double-amputee.
I agree the Camaro interior is more vocal about "I'm a muscle/track car" than the Mustang does. I got my SS/1LE when GM was "giving" them away back in 2019. I guess I lucked out on timing. They are a 'bad' deal these days vs Mustang or Dodge.

[WhitesnakeSS]

Originally Posted by shogun37

I got my SS/1LE when GM was "giving" them away back in 2019. I guess I lucked out on timing. They are a 'bad' deal these days vs Mustang or Dodge.

I did the same. Got mine in March of 2019.
Its a 2018 2SS for 35k new. Sticker was 50k
I thought I hit the jackpot.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Venomcustom

Voodoo, predator, coyote.... etc. much cooler than LS3, LT1 or LT4.

Looking at other car companies, Ford is the exception, not the norm.

I don't think people give BMW any trouble for their engine naming scheme(N55, S55, B58, etc.).

Or Honda(K20, J35).

Or Subaru(FB20, EJ25).

Or Nissan(VQ37).

I guess Ford is made for casuals who can't be bothered to even remember the engine code.

Now if you want to argue the 1LE/ZL1 bit, well, Germans can have the same issue with the M/AMG/RS. You can argue that comes down to marketing as well. That said, Chevy could have been more creative.

Sent from toaster or something