Catch-Can Decision 2016

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by JLSuperfly

This is a catch can loving forum so your poll will be skewed.

Yup.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by JLSuperfly

This is a catch can loving forum so your poll will be skewed.

"Skewed" because they work and people realize it? Okay. Sounds like a good skew to me.

I got my can a couple of years ago from Apex. No complaints. About a half cup of slightly funky oil per oil change (every 5K miles). Doesn't sound like much, but it's not gunking up my throttle body, intake, valves, or other internals.

I think LFX V6s benefit more from them than V8s though.

[mikeSS]

Been while since i read a catch can thread for the LS3. But I have read tons of catch can threads for the new LT1 engine. The biggest selling point of catch cans is to stop carbon build up on the back side of the intake valves on direct injection engines.

Whats the selling point for a port injection LS3 again ? I honestly forgot.

[insanity213]

Regardless of injection type, my feeling is the less garbage in your intake and combustion chamber the better off you'll be.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[ICTsccaCamaro]

Get a elite can, had a RX can on the V6 and it was complete junk very crappy drain valve on the bottom that wouldn't drain unless you put pressure in the can complete waste of money, vs. the elite that the bottom half comes off to drain. Ill be buying another elite for our 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT on order and be installing it the same day it comes off the transport truck.

[Olddudesrule]

Originally Posted by Stroke9

I don't have a supercharger or a turbo, nor do I race. So it's an unneeded expense I'll pass on.

Felt this way to when I owned my C6Z, but put an Elite on anyway. Have a Phastek CC on my 1LE, and I drain out about a 1/4 cup every 6-8 weeks, and I only drive it on the weekends. I do track the car, and have more in there then, but I have oil in the CC even with just normal street driving. I don't think there's a debatable issue as to whether we have oil going into our intakes, but whether or not it's healthy in those amounts. There are plenty of LS3's out there without CC's, and they are doing just fine. Then again, if you can prevent that oil from entering the intake and combustion chambers, why not?

[Pete M]

Originally Posted by Stroke9

I don't have a supercharger or a turbo, nor do I race. So it's an unneeded expense I'll pass on.

I don't have a turbo, supercharger nor do I race.
I'm just a Camaro owner who love to drive his car.
I put on an Elite catch can at 9500 miles, less than 1000 miles after I purchased mine.
Let's just say, i'm a believer. I'm not just "going along with the crowd," I've seen the proof myself.
This is a pic of normal driving after 3000 miles. Seriously, all that $#!T would have run through my intake. All it took was seeing this first hand to make me believe!

[Elite Engineering]

The benefits of stopping the oil mist and other compounds from being ingested via the intake air charge are many. The Port injection engines of the past (as of 2016 model year all GM gasoline engines are now GDI, Only Chrysler has held off, and Ford in their V8's) had no issues of intake valve coking/deposits. (This is very serious for GDI engines, but will cover that later).


But, we have to look at the combustion process of all internal combustion engines to understand how ingestion of anything besides Air and Fuel in the combustion chamber affects the process.


First, Gasoline, even though it is our best readily available fuel, it does not combustion completely, so there are always un-burnt portions left over. Some of this enters the crankcase as blow-by, and needs to be evacuated, or removed, along with the water vapor released during the intense heat and pressure, and sulfuric acid that forms during the process, and soot/ash/carbon particles. These must be removed as soon as they enter as blow-by and are still in a state of suspension. If not, they quickly settle and mix with the engine oil and that is where most of the "dirt" enters the oil making it unable to protect properly. The Elite E2 (if used with both outlets and 2 checkvalves) and the E2-X (all of this is standard with them) the existing PCV system is improved to remove these at all times VS just at idle, cruise and deceleration.


So that is a benefit that extends engine life by reducing wear.




Then we look at the burn it'self. Air and Fuel alone is all you ever want present during combustion. If any other contaminates are present, it reduces the amount of energy released during the combustion process, and that energy is power. The contaminants themselves either do not burn, or burn at a very slow and inefficient rate so you never want anything but air/fuel present.


The burn pattern, flame front, hot spots, etc. are all a result. Then we look at accumulative effects over time. These incomplete burns and the oil especially will leave varnish like deposits on the piston rings and the ring grooves so the rings cannot seal properly allowing even more blow-by.


Then if you have a supercharger like the ZL1, or a Magnuson, these contaminates also bake onto the intercoolers preventing them from cooling effectively and also over time restrict the air flow:


14,000 miles:





So, the advantages are many, and as a truly effective system such as the Elite E2 and E2-X, your fuel economy also improves by 1-3 MPG as you stop much of the knock retard caused by these contaminates so it pays for it'self over time if that is the goal.

[alrock]

Ordered my Elite today from JDP

[BlackinBlack]

I will leave this here.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451361

Installing something that in the words of many in this post "feel" works but there is not solid proof that they in fact prevent damage seems foolish when there is a chance of it voiding a warranty.

FACT: GM can and has voided a warranty for adding a catch can. (Read post above and google will pull up other examples.)

FICTION: Catch can will prevent major issues. Not one catch can vendor will provide a guarantee that their product will prevent some issue. They just state that it will prevent oil from getting into the intake which they "feel" may prevent issue. (Never has the LSx or newer LTx motor had a proven issue with some normal oil ingestion. GM designed and warranties them knowing that some oil will be ingested. They are designed to do it.)

For the price of a fancy bottle which "may" prevent issues but most definitely can void your GM warranty; will the catch can manufactures cover my engine if it blows up and GM does not cover it?

I for one will not spend $150 to $325 with the chance that it could cost me over $10,000 to replace my engine when I can save the money and have it 100% covered for free by GM for 5 years.

One final thing. I have been a member of this forum from 2009. Can we get some new scary pictures? The following was used by multiple catch can people from at least 2010. RX showed this one and ones of gunked up valves which I continue to see posted every time this topic is brought up.

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Show me some torn up LT1 engines or at least some LS3 or LSA engines with major issues due to a lack of a CC. If it is a major issue there should be no problem providing ones taken in 2016. In addition I would like proof that the engines posted did not have other issues that contributed to the fouling. Finally a dyno or evidence that the fouling has caused a negative effect on the motor and not just coated the intake with some oil.

BTW This is not an attack I just have seen these sold to people as a needed item but have seen little evidence that they truly prevent damage. Before I shrugged it off but now that the potential result is a void warranty I feel the need to post.

[Stormcloak]

My oil pump blew a hole right through the pan the minute I started installing the CC bracket. 15 seconds later, GM called me via OnStar and said "you're ****ed now, loser!"

The key wasn't even in the ignition, it was the weirdest thing.


Just kidding.. learn what they do, and make your own assessment. I have one, it fits well and works exactly as advertised.

[Elite Engineering]

Blacknblack, you have a C7 Zo6 it appears, go on the corvette forum and read all the testimonials and see the pictures of before and after from other LT4 owners....there is a ton of info over there to show you all a prudent person would need. Also, our systems are far from "pretty bottles", if that is what you are referring to, the OP here posted pics of those. And if you read more, we posted actual before and after dyno results, that the owner participated in every step of including the valve cleaning. As for damage, there are not a ton of these out with 40-50k miles on them which is where many will have worn the guides past acceptableness tolerances.


Finally, read the conclusion of the "one single case of a warranty denied "with ten's of thousands of these in use over the past 15 years or so, and it is easy to see the tech assigned to the repair did not even diagnose the turn rod bearing correctly as all it turned out to be was a failed oil pump. The owner of that car replaced the pump himself and is running strong, WITH the Elite can installed.


You state this is not an attack, but you are in the camaro5 section, not the GDI section, and you seem pretty set on your assumptions as so much proof, videos, pictures, dyno's, and actual LT1 and LT4 owners sharing their results is far more documentation than the average "neon light kit" or billet bling" under the hood costing around the same $.


We are happy to discuss anything technical if you wish, but not the exaggerations and personal assumptions. Only fact with supporting documentation.


You can feel free to explain how a intake valve misshapen with deposits and far from how they were designed has no impact on volumetric efficiency, were all ears. Same with how these hard sand like abrasive deposits don't wear the soft brass allot guides as it is drawn into the guides many times per second. And of course, how detonation and the resulting knock retard these compounds cause is fine as well. We also respect anyone's decision not to run one and care for their investment as they choose, we don't "push" these on anyone. We simply educate, give data, share pictures, and work with industry professionals on solving these issues and let the consumer decide.


As the industry goes to such lengths to deny any of this was an issue, until the past few years when they are now touting their "catchcans" as the solution, the average car owner does not know where to turn, so that is why we spend the money and effort to help all understand everything technical related to these issues, and we are not alone. SAE (the International Society of Automotive Engineers is working overtime on these issues, as are every lubrication manufacturer. And were also interested in why GM lowered the engine warranty almost in 1/2 from 100k miles to 60k miles on the GDI engines? Why would they do so if there are no worries about engine longevity? And Ford to 35k miles? These were great examples in the past of how much GM had confidence in the LS engines longevity, but why the short warranty periods for the GDI engines?


Get technical for us and share your knowledge and qualifications on all of this. Especially how your involved with the Auto industry and the new GDI engines, were always interested to hear from other experts that have also been studying these engines, tearing them down, and documenting power, etc. and rates of coking and just how much degradation in power they are seeing at different mileages. Even as simple as for the LT4 owner to take 5 minutes and remove their upper plenum cover and take pictures of the oil underneath and saturating the intercooler bricks.


:cheers:

[christianchevell]

There it is all tucked away in my engine bay all shiny red anodized and useful. And for those that are worried you could just uninstall it......return it to stock and the one case where some dealer wanker was a hard nose....well things happen, and dealers are there to sell cars...period. Not all of us buy ZO6 and worry about the warranty, some of us void that sucker...... and know better than to rely on a dealer. I would like proof your a hot rodder.....LOL and that Hillarys a woman....NO I think I just barfed in my mouth a little....Gotta GO.....

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

I will leave this here.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451361

Installing something that in the words of many in this post "feel" works but there is not solid proof that they in fact prevent damage seems foolish when there is a chance of it voiding a warranty.

FACT: GM can and has voided a warranty for adding a catch can. (Read post above and google will pull up other examples.)...

No offense, but you're hyperbolizing the facts. There's one instance of someone claiming their warranty was voided because of a catch-can. Even if the information posted by the individual is true & accurate, the widely accepted consensus is that the warranty was voided due to a mishandling by the dealership & that the catch-can wasn't the cause of the failure.

Originally Posted by Stormcloak

My oil pump blew a hole right through the pan the minute I started installing the CC bracket. 15 seconds later, GM called me via OnStar and said "you're ****ed now, loser!"

The key wasn't even in the ignition, it was the weirdest thing...

You scared the crap outta me.