[SD1]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Hell, I paid more for my M3 and itss performance isn't even that great. Kinda off topic, but M3/M4 are over rated for what you pay for them.

Talk about a role reversal, went into BMW, a loaded out M3 is 90k, I mean its a gorgeous car and no slouch, but whomped by a ZL1 for 20K less, not even a contest. 10-12 years ago, you would NEVER have crossed shopped a Camaro and a 3 series, I mean not with a straight face.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by SD1

Talk about a role reversal, went into BMW, a loaded out M3 is 90k, I mean its a gorgeous car and no slouch, but whomped by a ZL1 for 20K less, not even a contest. 10-12 years ago, you would NEVER have crossed shopped a Camaro and a 3 series, I mean not with a straight face.

Yeah. I was severely disappointed in the performance of my M3. The damping is horrible (had to move to Ohlin R/T coilovers to keep the ass-end stable and composed) the stability control will come into play and shut you down way before the tires are out of grip (even in MDM mode).

It has no traction even with extreme performance tires on it. The motor and drivetrain are amazing, but the chassis is not up to the task. The only redeeming quality to the chassis is it is well balanced in the understeer/oversteer area.

I had had constant issues with pad deposits causing brake vibrations and creaks from the door seals on all 4 doors.

Like the 1LE, the M3 rear has no bushings and is hard mounted to the body. So I am used to that direct connection.

They had definitely role reversed. BMW (M division especially) has soften to appeal to the masses and Ford GM have the special sauce when it comes to handling, especially GM. If only GM could pick up their quality a bit more.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Ive had new cars that were far more nighmares than than used cars I've owned. That's always a crap shoot. My first gen5 was ordered to my liking. I removed all the packing tape myself, was there when it was unloaded off the truck, there when it was prepared for sale. That car was a POS from day one. Ive bought many used 1 to 2 year old cars that people bought and couldnt afford or just wanted out for whatever reason. Cars that were not beat ,but babied. All of them were better cars than that 2010. I bought some used ones that were crap too, but that was mainly becuase those particular models were crap over being mistreated. Its your money, your welcome to lose it however you see fit. I used to play that game to until I got over the need to be "that guy" who always has a new car.

Edit: your car is used the moment you sign the papers making it no better than anyone elses used car. You just paid more.

See that's just it. I don't see it as a "loss". A loss means you didn't get anything, you just lost money. Money in depreciation is different because I used the vehicle. So I didn't lose money, I paid for a vehicle and used it.

Originally Posted by motorhead

Im not sure what you mean buy rich. Several of my friends could easily pay cash for very expensive cars (including myself), but many of them see those as a poor investments, but they still want to drive nice cars. So they buy them a year or two old. It's making smart use of your money.

I consider it as treating myself. Like going on a vacation. A car can't be a poor investment because you aren't buying it to make money off it. So a car being a poor investment would be the same as a pair of socks being a poor investment. Nobody should be buying a car with the intention or idea that they'll make money off it. Unless you're buying a vehicle that will be used for work, then it is an investment. But buying a vehicle for pleasure and enjoyment, if you truly enjoy it, then it isn't a loss at all nor is it a bad investment. It served a purpose, you enjoyed it.

[91454]

Depreciation! The dealer I bought mine from two months ago has two identical cars with mark downs $5000 to $7000 less than i paid. I wanted to order a ZR1 now but will have to wait a year or so. Should have kept the ZO6.

[JK001]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Yeah. I was severely disappointed in the performance of my M3. The damping is horrible (had to move to Ohlin R/T coilovers to keep the ass-end stable and composed) the stability control will come into play and shut you down way before the tires are out of grip (even in MDM mode).

It has no traction even with extreme performance tires on it. The motor and drivetrain are amazing, but the chassis is not up to the task. The only redeeming quality to the chassis is it is well balanced in the understeer/oversteer area.

I had had constant issues with pad deposits causing brake vibrations and creaks from the door seals on all 4 doors.

Like the 1LE, the M3 rear has no bushings and is hard mounted to the body. So I am used to that direct connection.

They had definitely role reversed. BMW (M division especially) has soften to appeal to the masses and Ford GM have the special sauce when it comes to handling, especially GM. If only GM could pick up their quality a bit more.

Yeah, that is the sad reality with present day M cars. The track performance is lost...or what really has happened is M division never moved forward while GM leaped substantially in the handling category.

The build quality of GM, the interior, and for crying out loud things like pinch welds and no real jack points, really aggravate me about the 1LE, but damn does it out handle any M car! Not to mention how dang reliable has it been, no issues with it what so ever!

Who knows what the 2019 refresh will be, but surely the 1LE and ZLE will continue to depreciate rapidly

[onfire]

Originally Posted by JK001

Yeah, that is the sad reality with present day M cars. The track performance is lost...or what really has happened is M division never moved forward while GM leaped substantially in the handling category.

The build quality of GM, the interior, and for crying out loud things like pinch welds and no real jack points, really aggravate me about the 1LE, but damn does it out handle any M car! Not to mention how dang reliable has it been, no issues with it what so ever!

Who knows what the 2019 refresh will be, but surely the 1LE and ZLE will continue to depreciate rapidly

New M5 ran 0-60 in 2.8 and a 10.9 1/4 in Car and Driver and Road and Track. M performance might be on a come back. Cost vs Value will never compare to GM....but accel...

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by onfire

New M5 ran 0-60 in 2.8 and a 10.9 1/4 in Car and Driver and Road and Track. M performance might be on a come back. Cost vs Value will never compare to GM....but accel...

That is only one side of the performance equation.

How is the damping? How intuitive is the stability control system, how well sorted out is the chassis.

Anyone can make a fast car, its how it all comes together and if all parts are talking to each other.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Originally Posted by onfire

New M5 ran 0-60 in 2.8 and a 10.9 1/4 in Car and Driver and Road and Track. M performance might be on a come back. Cost vs Value will never compare to GM....but accel...

It did. I will have this car with the competition package when my current M5 lease runs out. These are 2 different cars, different price points, different mission, etc.

[JK001]

Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND

It did. I will have this car with the competition package when my current M5 lease runs out. These are 2 different cars, different price points, different mission, etc.

It is different mind set, totally different customer base, 2 more doors, refinement....list goes on

[VAZL1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But then you're buying a car that someone beat the shit out of for it's first couple years and few thousand miles because they knew they were getting rid of it. Or you're buying a car that sat at dealership lots and had tons of test drives and people abusing it. I prefer to buy new because of these reasons. Every time I see a video of some neanderthal in a brand new Muscle Car with 3 miles on it and they're roasting the tires and bouncing the engine off the rev limiter I am reassured that I made the right choice in buying new.


Back towards the Fall of 2016 I was at a Chrysler store looking at a Jeep and I saw a brand new Challenger HC. They had a rope around it, you couldn't touch it, sit in it, nothing. All they would let you do is look at it and if you were interested you had to fill out paperwork first. So I saw the sticker sai like $85K and about $15K was "adjusted market value", lol!! Now, not even 2 years later, a used HC with less than 2500 miles doesn't fetch more than mid to high $50K. I feel sorry for the sucker who paid that AMV because they lost a lot of money.

+1

[VAZL1]

Originally Posted by Ranch41

In everyone’s analysis the one factor which fails to be considered is the intrinsic value people place on having the thing when and how that particular person wants it. For some, the depreciation of driving a new car off the lot is lower than the enjoyment that person receives from driving that same new car off the lot or the depreciation is lower than the enjoyment that person receives from driving that car around today and not tomorrow.

For me, the enjoyment and peace of mind driving a new car these past 2 months was well worth the $15,000 or so decline in value. If it wasn’t, than I would have purchased a used car. Each person is different and each person places a value on these enjoyments differently. So while my decision to purchase a new ZL1 and drive it off the lot thereby suffering the “depreciation” may seem foolish or illogical to some for me it was well worth it.

+1

[VAZL1]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Ive had new cars that were far more nighmares than than used cars I've owned. That's always a crap shoot. My first gen5 was ordered to my liking. I removed all the packing tape myself, was there when it was unloaded off the truck, there when it was prepared for sale. That car was a POS from day one. Ive bought many used 1 to 2 year old cars that people bought and couldnt afford or just wanted out for whatever reason. Cars that were not beat ,but babied. All of them were better cars than that 2010. I bought some used ones that were crap too, but that was mainly becuase those particular models were crap over being mistreated. Its your money, your welcome to lose it however you see fit. I used to play that game to until I got over the need to be "that guy" who always has a new car.

Edit: your car is used the moment you sign the papers making it no better than anyone elses used car. You just paid more.

I think you fail to see that your still "that guy", your just the used car guy and not the new.....

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by VAZL1

I think you fail to see that your still "that guy", your just the used car guy and not the new.....

Well, your car is used too. Maybe I am still that "that guy", but i drive the same car for less money. When driving down the road noone knows if I bought my car used or new. It looks the same as the guy that ordered his.
To clarify, I just recently started playing this game of buying 1 to 2 year old cars after many conversations with friends over me wasting money buying new. I was just like you guys and used all the same arguments. They made me realize that people these days trade cars 5 mins after they buy them (this very fourm proves that). There are good deals to be had on cars that are just as good as the untitled one still with warranties sometimes as good as new. I like to buy cars ,and Im not stuck on one brand. Why not save the depreciation if I can?
The OP's car above is a prime example of what Im talking about. Also, Im not beyond buying new if one comes with a deep enough discount to push it close to one that is year or two old. I appreciate you fellows that have to have the " Im the first one" feeling. If that money you are giving up is worth it to you than go for it. im just over that part of it.

Edit: and yes the idea of saving money is a crazy concept to many people these days. Thus peope living pay to pay, high CC debt , and no money in the bank just to have the lastest car, biggest TV, best cell phone and so on.
Ill accept being crazy. Thank you.

[Deadmau5]

you're the real MVP... Very well said @motorhead

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