Electric Vehicles

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by docwra

"Are EVs actually cleaner?"has come up many times in this thread, all Ill say is right now the UK is only using 24% fossil fuels for power generation; Ive no idea why someone would buy 3 EVs but only one Honda Civic in 20 years either

They can be, in an "ideal" world configuration (which doesn't exist). As the years go by and cleaner power generation takes shape in larger percentages, the case is stronger. Buying an EV now to save the world is little more that virtue signaling. Now, buying one because you never want to go to a gas station again, awesome. Or you like the smooth quite power delivery, fine.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

My current situation… Hanging out at the beach waiting to deliver a keynote address to the 100th Battery Council International Convention. Topic is the 100 (plus) year partnership of cars and batteries, plus a look at what’s coming. Primarily, the impending shift from Lead Acid to Li-Ion for low voltage EV batteries (12 - 48V).

So then, were all the golf carts souped up?
Are any planning to change starter battery chemistry?

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Or you like the smooth quite power delivery, fine.

Neck-snapping power is more like it. And full regen enabled with "B" mode is my preference. That lets me one-pedal drive in normal street driving. And for spirited driving, B mode can't be beat. Regen is like compression braking, and it's variable with your foot position in most cars. Twisties in an EV (AWD) are an absolute riot because you can slow down and accelerate so quickly. I do love pedals and shifters too, but EV's are a new kind of fahrvergnügen for me. EV tires won't last, this I know. Because it's fun to drive the piss out of the car everywhere I go, it's like being 18 all over again, but with much more driving skill under my belt.

Who cares about the earth when you're having that much fun?

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Neck-snapping power is more like it. And full regen enabled with "B" mode is my preference. That lets me one-pedal drive in normal street driving. And for spirited driving, B mode can't be beat. Regen is like compression braking, and it's variable with your foot position in most cars. Twisties in an EV (AWD) are an absolute riot because you can slow down and accelerate so quickly. I do love pedals and shifters too, but EV's are a new kind of fahrvergnügen for me. EV tires won't last, this I know. Because it's fun to drive the piss out of the car everywhere I go, it's like being 18 all over again, but with much more driving skill under my belt.

Who cares about the earth when you're having that much fun?

That's all in the software. You'll see automakers dial this back depending on the vehicle and its' desired characteristics.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

They can be, in an "ideal" world configuration (which doesn't exist). As the years go by and cleaner power generation takes shape in larger percentages, the case is stronger. Buying an EV now to save the world is little more that virtue signaling. Now, buying one because you never want to go to a gas station again, awesome. Or you like the smooth quite power delivery, fine.

It doesn't require an "ideal" world configuration. It's already true today and the gap widens as the aggregate grids around the world improve. This chart, from an independent data source (Bloomberg) illustrates that. The red lines are the lifecycle emissions of ICE vehicles. The bar stacks detail the contributors to emissions from manufacturing and using EVs. The red lines are far above (more lifetime emissions) from the start. Interesting that the difference is larger in the US than the rest of the world. Simple answer for that. Volume and share of market for full size pickups and utilities outpaces the rest of the world by a lot.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by snizzle

That's all in the software. You'll see automakers dial this back depending on the vehicle and its' desired characteristics.

As well as the number of motors, their size, and how much power they can handle.

The Chevy Bolt is kind of wimpy. The Volt was even wimpier.

The Volvo C40 and Polestar Sedan....docile looking hatch/sedans...0-60 in just over 4 seconds with AWD. Looks are subjective, but it's hard to NOT have fun with that kind of juice. 402hp and 494 lb-ft in that little Volvo. It is a Volvo, though, another reason I'd love for GM to come out with something actually cool in an EV, trucks aside.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It doesn't require an "ideal" world configuration. It's already true today and the gap widens as the aggregate grids around the world improve. This chart, from an independent data source (Bloomberg) illustrates that. The red lines are the lifecycle emissions of ICE vehicles. The bar stacks detail the contributors to emissions from manufacturing and using EVs. The red lines are far above (more lifetime emissions) from the start. Interesting that the difference is larger in the US than the rest of the world. Simple answer for that. Volume and share of market for full size pickups and utilities outpaces the rest of the world by a lot.

Quite a few assumptions have to go into the data to create a chart like this, no less from the International Council on Clean transportation China is closer in that chart I suspect because they are heavy dirty power consumers.

I will of course concede that it's obvious at some point given gas cars tailpipe omit as they are driven, that you catch and surpass in a pure electric vehicle eventually while starting at a deficit. All of this depends on how much you drive, how far, and what is used to generate the power you consume. Regional and behavioral. Depending on those variables, it could take you 10+ years to get there. The full potential is years away to my point. I would consider an EV, and have for their advantages, but not because I think it'll have a significant impact on climate change, my other point. EVs are not the remedy, if there is one.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

As well as the number of motors, their size, and how much power they can handle.

The Chevy Bolt is kind of wimpy. The Volt was even wimpier.

The Volvo C40 and Polestar Sedan....docile looking hatch/sedans...0-60 in just over 4 seconds with AWD. Looks are subjective, but it's hard to NOT have fun with that kind of juice. 402hp and 494 lb-ft in that little Volvo. It is a Volvo, though, another reason I'd love for GM to come out with something actually cool in an EV, trucks aside.

Good points, plus the battery size/capability to add to that.

I actually admire what they did with the Hummer. It's big, brash, stupid, inefficient..... as a Hummer should be. At least it showed folks that GM could make an interesting EV.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

As well as the number of motors, their size, and how much power they can handle.

The Chevy Bolt is kind of wimpy. The Volt was even wimpier.

The Volvo C40 and Polestar Sedan....docile looking hatch/sedans...0-60 in just over 4 seconds with AWD. Looks are subjective, but it's hard to NOT have fun with that kind of juice. 402hp and 494 lb-ft in that little Volvo. It is a Volvo, though, another reason I'd love for GM to come out with something actually cool in an EV, trucks aside.

I understand how it's nice to have the abundance of silent power. I use it to safely pull out in traffic or into a faster moving lane. Every day or two also to get through as the light goes yellow (not red light running) instead of jamming on the brakes and a risk of being hit from behind. Unless you've driven a powerful BEV it's not familiar, I would say it reminds me of driving something with 4.56 rear gears with that strong pull.

a guy giggling over the acceleration video:
https://youtu.be/YR2KylvHe40?t=503

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Because it's fun to drive the piss out of the car everywhere I go, it's like being 18 all over again, but with much more driving skill under my belt.

This too, we are just over a year into owning the E-Tron and I dont miss an opportunity to floor it - 500 lb/ft from 0 rpm never gets old

[JamesMyBoy]

Regarding the chart above...
Is there no graph of the Total emissions from manufacturing AND use of EVs?
Looks like we get the total for gas cars, but have to add all of the numbers for Electric cars to get the same metric?
Just wondering :-)

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

Regarding the chart above...
Is there no graph of the Total emissions from manufacturing AND use of EVs?
Looks like we get the total for gas cars, but have to add all of the numbers for Electric cars to get the same metric?
Just wondering :-)

I don’t think you’re understanding the chart right. The entire bar is literally what you are asking for. It was broken down into parts for people to see how much emissions are created for all the aspects in which anti ev folks argue about.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It doesn't require an "ideal" world configuration. It's already true today and the gap widens as the aggregate grids around the world improve. This chart, from an independent data source (Bloomberg) illustrates that. The red lines are the lifecycle emissions of ICE vehicles. The bar stacks detail the contributors to emissions from manufacturing and using EVs. The red lines are far above (more lifetime emissions) from the start. Interesting that the difference is larger in the US than the rest of the world. Simple answer for that. Volume and share of market for full size pickups and utilities outpaces the rest of the world by a lot.

Gimme a break. How many EVs will last 155,000 miles? Gotta add 50% or more to all the EV emissions levels to be closer to apples to apples to account for building more EVs due to a shorter life span. Then compare that to a civic or other decently efficient ICE and the EV will likely have more emissions. Not to mention this is just looking at carbon dioxide. Not even taking into account other environmental attributes, which the EV is clearly worse.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Gimme a break. How many EVs will last 155,000 miles? Gotta add 50% or more to all the EV emissions levels to be closer to apples to apples to account for building more EVs due to a shorter life span. Then compare that to a civic or other decently efficient ICE and the EV will likely have more emissions. Not to mention this is just looking at carbon dioxide. Not even taking into account other environmental attributes, which the EV is clearly worse.

Um, you may want to look at all the Teslas over 200k on the original battery.

And did you really care about saving the environment before you got mad at EV's? Probably not.