Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

I don’t know if I would go that far. But I think it’s fair to say that everyone’s aware that the cobalt in their EV batteries is to some extent sourced from child slave labor, most just try not to think about it, some don’t care. The worst make what aboutism excuses.

I appreciate your perspective on this MSS1LE. I’ll only add that a number of battery manufacturers are working actively to either eliminate the need for cobalt in their batteries (LFP batteries do not use cobalt) or minimize the amount of cobalt (NMA batteries substitute aluminum for cobalt) and at the same time focus on sourcing the cobalt from entities not involved in child labor. It increases the cost of the cobalt but at the end of the day it is a step closer to alleviating the problem.

[Martinjlm]

Somewhat of a shift in direction. Still pertinent to the topic and I think fairly underlining some real world issues on both sides of the discussion…

• Guy has (had) a 2-year old Model Y Performance. Top of the line for Model Y.
• Drives it 130,000 miles in 2 years.
• Drives it all over the US from Maine to Arizona to Florida and other places.
• Gets rear ended by a vehicle traveling 40 mph, no evidence of braking. Factory built in dash cams catch it all.
• Still driveable, but insurance totals it out because of cost to repair
• Vehicle sells at auction

https://youtu.be/2ZSoPZhSfs8?si=3igrC-n4HU39P_cI

[ChevyRules]

Surprised the pyro fuse didn't blow with that impact.

[Martinjlm]

Don't remember when...don't remember who, but the topic of dealers bailing on EV was brought up. I tend to think that it is a subset of the dealer group that has already decided to take the various buyouts that Ford, GM, other car makers are offering but I clearly don't have any data to support that belief. What I have seen is an interview that Gary Gilchrist, the President of the National Auto Dealers Association (NADA) conducted with Automotive News ahead of next week's NADA Convention in Las Vegas.

Basically he's saying that NADA supports the transition to EV, though at a more moderate pace than what is being suggested and that NADA supports the IRA incentive program. Excerpts from that interview...

[docwra]

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

I have no doubt that is true, BUT as of today and for the foreseeable future, a significant portion of the money spent on EVs will end up in the pockets of people who use child slave labor to mine cobalt.

Theres no more Cobalt mining now than there was 10 years ago and its not just limited to EVs, Cobalt is in nearly every battery for every application. Best get that mobile phone in the garbage ASAP.
Sulphur mines arent exactly a holiday, are you going to boycott fireworks too? Why just focus on Cobalt?
Many people die or are mistreated in oil production, in fact there are militia attacking oil refineries daily but thats OK because its oil, right?

If some people believe the positives of reducing tail pipe emissions and higher fuel efficiency outweigh that negative, I say people have the right to make their own value decisions.

I make that 5 times youve mentioned "tailpipe emissions" without considering clean power generation is impossible with ICE and inevitable with EVs, its the biggest single positive of the whole thing IMO.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by docwra

Theres no more Cobalt mining now than there was 10 years ago and its not just limited to EVs, Cobalt is in nearly every battery for every application. Best get that mobile phone in the garbage ASAP.
Sulphur mines arent exactly a holiday, are you going to boycott fireworks too? Why just focus on Cobalt?

LOL. That's like saying, "Hey, the store is being looted anyway and I need a new TV so..."

At least be intellectually honest and recognize the problem.

Many people die or are mistreated in oil production, in fact there are militia attacking oil refineries daily but thats OK because its oil, right?

If by mistreated you mean "paid high wages" then yes, oil field workers are badly mistreated.

And attacks on oil refineries are acts of terrorism or war and have nothing to do with oil itself. If there were no oil refineries they would be attacking the windmills and solar panels.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

Theres no more Cobalt mining now than there was 10 years ago and its not just limited to EVs, Cobalt is in nearly every battery for every application. Best get that mobile phone in the garbage ASAP.
Sulphur mines arent exactly a holiday, are you going to boycott fireworks too? Why just focus on Cobalt?

Because cobalts mines are the "blood diamonds" of the sanctimonious virtue signalers that condemn us for not subscribing to their religion. It's interesting to watch the hypocricy as they rationalize or just dismiss this issue when its called out.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

LOL. That's like saying, "Hey, the store is being looted anyway and I need a new TV so..."

At least be intellectually honest and recognize the problem.

There is far, far more Cobalt used in production of batteries for vapes, mobiles phones and power tools, the "intellectually honest" would appreciate that its not an EV problem.

And attacks on oil refineries are acts of terrorism or war and have nothing to do with oil itself. If there were no oil refineries they would be attacking the windmills and solar panels.

And if there were no EVs we would still be mining Cobalt and Sulphur.

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

What are you going to do for power when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing? Hmm? We're nowhere close to being able to build batteries to store enough energy to bridge that gap.

Its overcast here today, average wind speed is 9mph.
Just over 60% of UK power is currently being supplied by "clean" sources.

[KMPrenger]

Posted on this forum elsewhere....pretty relevant here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...2ce67baa&ei=99

GM shifting their path to include plug in hybrid vehicles.

Finally, making some sense. Hybrids make more sense right now for the majority of buyers...especially for certain vehicle segments. Too bad they are behind the game. Hopefully they can bring them to market very quickly considering they are already using some PHEV technology in other foreign markets.

[h422694]

GM shifting their path to include plug in hybrid vehicles.

Finally, making some sense. Hybrids make more sense right now for the majority of buyers...especially for certain vehicle segments. Too bad they are behind the game. Hopefully they can bring them to market very quickly considering they are already using some PHEV technology in other foreign markets.[/QUOTE]

I saw the interview today and that's not exactly what she said. Her comments were that GM is committed to all EVs by 2035. When asked about hybrids she said they could play a role while the charging infrastructure continues to build and to meet a more stringent regulatory environment. She also said they have two plants that can make both ICE and EVs (not hybrids) and can switch between the two as demand exits.
Link to CNBC interview this morning: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...vs/vi-BB1huIm3

And then again, maybe I was reading more into the interview than what she said.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by h422694

I saw the interview today and that's not exactly what she said. Her comments were that GM is committed to all EVs by 2035. When asked about hybrids she said they could play a role while the charging infrastructure continues to build and to meet a more stringent regulatory environment. She also said they have two plants that can make both ICE and EVs (not hybrids) and can switch between the two as demand exits.

This article from GM Authority also states the same. I did not see the interview.

https://gmauthority-com.cdn.ampproje...rth-america%2F

And then again, maybe I was reading more into the interview than what she said.[/QUOTE]

[docwra]

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

I'm happy it's windy there today. Is it like that 365 days a year and if not are you ok going without power on the nights when it isn't windy?

You can actually check in realtime: https://grid.iamkate.com/ right now 25% is fossil fuels which makes the other bit a lot closer to 100%.
This doesnt include solar panels in private homes, funnily enough solar output will get bigger as we get more hours of sun i.e. "Summer"

I could also tell you about the battery storage thats being installed everywhere ........ but TBH its pointless if youre not actually taking any of this on board.

And proud isnt the right word. All parents want their kids (mine is 4) to grow up in the healthiest environment possible.
You might not believe climate change is a thing but youre crazy if youre going to tell me reduced or zero tailpipe/power generation emissions are a bad thing.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

I read everything you write, I just don't agree with a lot of it. If you're saying there's no point discussing it because I see the world around me and reach different conclusions than you do, that's your choice.

By all means disagree with my opinion but not with the facts.

Pretty much every post quoting my actual experience is followed up by someone telling me Im wrong and I finish up repeating the same facts - clean power generation is happening, EV sales are increasing and in that particular post infrastructure, or more specifically power storage is coming on rapidly. You did it again 4 posts ago when you told me UK was only generating 40% clean power.

That said I dont disagree with this bit at all:
"So I can agree with you on the positive good of a clean environment, while disagreeing with you that taking emissions all the way to zero is worth the cost."

Thats key for me, EVs are expensive to buy, they dont suit everyone but you cant deny they create less pollution ...... but people still have a problem with them existing, thats the bit I dont get it.

[Gen6cyl]

Have y'all heard about the ship that sank in 2022 in the Atlantic. It had over 4000 high end cars in it. It sank because lithium ion batteries caught fire. Evs pollute in ways icv's don't.