Forged Pistions and Rods for LLT - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

GretchenGotGrowl · 10-05-2010, 07:31 AM

Does anyone know if anyone is making aftermarket forged pistions and rods for our little V6? I've seen some stuff on the CTS that suggests it has them (http://drupal.caddyinfo.com/?q=node/44), and others that suggest they are cast like ours (http://www.zercustoms.com/news/2008-Cadillac-CTS.html). What about the Holden V6, does it even have the same bore/stroke as ours? Any guidance would be greately appreciated.

King Sun · 10-05-2010, 08:43 AM

if they start making cams I would skip going FI all together

scrming · 10-05-2010, 09:00 AM

This kind of stuff is going to be very labor intensive... and most likely very very expensive!

King Sun · 10-05-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrming

This kind of stuff is going to be very labor intensive... and most likely very very expensive!

why is that? school me

scrming · 10-05-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Sun

why is that? school me

Dual overhead cams with variable valve timing... basically just complicates things... requires special GM tools and then my understanding it can be PITA to time things properly and could be fairly easy to get things a bit off...

GretchenGotGrowl · 10-05-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150

I have custom pistons made quite often, so any thing is possible,,,but the cost would be high. If going FI you will want to try and lower the CR some as it is in the 11.4 to 1 range stock.

How much are you paying and who do you use? I'm doing this because I do want turbos and I'm afraid the engine won't take much more that 6 psi with cast pistons and rods.

ROD1 · 10-05-2010, 07:10 PM

I had no idea the cts had forged pistons. Good to know forged is available.

GretchenGotGrowl · 10-05-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROD1

I had no idea the cts had forged pistons. Good to know forged is available.

I'm saying one place I looked said it did, the other one make it sound like it had the same as ours.

Mach · 10-05-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

How much are you paying and who do you use? I'm doing this because I do want turbos and I'm afraid the engine won't take much more that 6 psi with cast pistons and rods.

Not trying to be a smartass but says who?

King Sun · 10-05-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrming

Dual overhead cams with variable valve timing... basically just complicates things... requires special GM tools and then my understanding it can be PITA to time things properly and could be fairly easy to get things a bit off...

:( nevermind then

PoorMansCamaro · 10-05-2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

How much are you paying and who do you use? I'm doing this because I do want turbos and I'm afraid the engine won't take much more that 6 psi with cast pistons and rods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach

Not trying to be a smartass but says who?

i don't think he knows that as a fact. He said he's afraid it wont...and honestly, he's probably right. with 6psi, you're probably looking at over 500hp at the crank.

GretchenGotGrowl · 10-06-2010, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

i don't think he knows that as a fact. He said he's afraid it wont...and honestly, he's probably right. with 6psi, you're probably looking at over 500hp at the crank.

Exactly. I don't know what it can take, but I also don't want to be the one that finds that limit. I'd much rather be safe. If that means I have to wait until someone starts manufacturing these then I'll keep the boost low on any future turbo system.

I also think similar issues may arise with the tranny. I don't know it as fact, but if you look at the specs on the Wiki site you'll see the max tq. is pretty low (332 ft-lbs for A6, 345 ft-lbs for M6). So, if assume 500 HP with 6 psi (I think that is what STS is claiming) at 6500 RPM, you are generating about 400 ft-lbs torque. You might be able to push it that far because the transmission is rated at that for a 5000 lb vehicle and because you won't be putting that out right away, but turbos do put out a lot of torque at low RPMs (especially small ones). Of course, I won't know until I get the turbos and do the dyno.

scrming · 10-06-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

Exactly. I don't know what it can take, but I also don't want to be the one that finds that limit. I'd much rather be safe. If that means I have to wait until someone starts manufacturing these then I'll keep the boost low on any future turbo system.

I also think similar issues may arise with the tranny. I don't know it as fact, but if you look at the specs on the Wiki site you'll see the max tq. is pretty low (332 ft-lbs for A6, 345 ft-lbs for M6). So, if assume 500 HP with 6 psi (I think that is what STS is claiming) at 6500 RPM, you are generating about 400 ft-lbs torque. You might be able to push it that far because the transmission is rated at that for a 5000 lb vehicle and because you won't be putting that out right away, but turbos do put out a lot of torque at low RPMs (especially small ones). Of course, I won't know until I get the turbos and do the dyno.

My concern is the fuel system.... while it appears to be able to support 5 to 6 PSI, i'm not sure it will support more than that.... I know one of the performance guys here was looking at the math on things... but not sure it is that simple with DI...

That being said... a properly tuned automatic should be able to handle a bit more than what it's really rated for... you might not get 100,000 miles out of it... but I would think it would hold up pretty well... key is going to be getting the tranny calibration correct and changing the fluid a lot more often than the book says...

GretchenGotGrowl · 10-06-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrming

My concern is the fuel system.... while it appears to be able to support 5 to 6 PSI, i'm not sure it will support more than that.... I know one of the performance guys here was looking at the math on things... but not sure it is that simple with DI...

Yes, I was going to start a discussion about that. It looks like the fuel pump can handle 550 HP (it might be 500 HP). However, the injectors are only 1900 psi, and other DI engines (e.g., MazdaSpeed3) have found that to be too limiting. Most of those guys are replacing the injectors and fuel pumps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrming

That being said... a properly tuned automatic should be able to handle a bit more than what it's really rated for... you might not get 100,000 miles out of it... but I would think it would hold up pretty well... key is going to be getting the tranny calibration correct and changing the fluid a lot more often than the book says...

400 I'm not too worried about. Vince can tune it up to a point. However, I'm not sure it can handle the TQ you would be throwing at it with say 10-12 psi. Even if the TM system can accomodate it at low RPM it will do it at the expense of the launch I would think. I'd rather build the tranny and throw the power at it

. Just my idea for my car -- others may have other opinons.

10-05-2010, 07:31 AM	#1
GretchenGotGrowl Drives: 11 F150 EB/13 Sonic RS/15 Z06 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 7,129 View My Garage	Forged Pistions and Rods for LLT Does anyone know if anyone is making aftermarket forged pistions and rods for our little V6? I've seen some stuff on the CTS that suggests it has them (http://drupal.caddyinfo.com/?q=node/44), and others that suggest they are cast like ours (http://www.zercustoms.com/news/2008-Cadillac-CTS.html). What about the Holden V6, does it even have the same bore/stroke as ours? Any guidance would be greately appreciated. __________________ New Ride -- 2015 Z06 2LZ (stock) -- Journal Old Ride -- 2012 Camaro 2LT/RS (647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ) -- Build Thread

10-05-2010, 09:00 AM	#3
scrming Red Brick of Vengeance! Drives: 12 Second Brick Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: at my pulpit Posts: 7,745	This kind of stuff is going to be very labor intensive... and most likely very very expensive! __________________ 2011 Ford Flex EcoBoost Limited - 12.727 @ 109.790 MPH

10-05-2010, 08:43 AM	#2
King Sun Casual Camaro Owner Drives: 2010 Black LS V6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 1,090	if they start making cams I would skip going FI all together

10-05-2010, 07:10 PM	#7
ROD1 Retired Drives: 2010 Camaro RS V6 #1301 DOB 3/23/09 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ithaca NY Posts: 2,563	I had no idea the cts had forged pistons. Good to know forged is available.