Dodge ending challenger & charger production

[Devstrike]

The last year of the V8s is going to be really good for Dodge it's after that where we will see what happens. Dodge unlike other automakers has a lot to lose considering there lineup is mostly performance vehicles. They get it wrong or it is not accepted by enthusiasts it will be a bad time.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

My 2019 2.0t Equinox Premier stickered at over $39k. Do you seriously believe that GM will offer a similar electric version (sans subsidies) for the same or less money?

Me, I'm betting on the flying pigs.

A $30k Equinox created by $7500 in tax credits (my tax dollars and only usable by people with high incomes) plus using a battery subsidized by billions of dollars of my tax dollars is a hoax.

I totally get your point. I was there when they first said it, but now I believe it. Allow me to toss in a bit of history. When I was at GM, GM Legal was the bane of my existence for many reasons. One of those reasons was that whenever we suggested going to market with performance claims, pricing claims, or competitive comparison claims they came out of the woodwork with the most banal reasons why “you can’t say that”. So, unless the new GM has found a way to stifle the lawyers, I’m inclined to believe that if it’s in print, they mean it. And they have definitely put it in print.

Another signal is they just cut the price of Bolt EV and Bolt EUV by over $5,000 to get them both under $30k before they exit the portfolio just as Equinox EV comes in. And it’s not like those vehicles weren’t selling (EUV outsells Camaro)

[FarmerFran]

I like how they are at least trying to make some of these EVs look good. Because some look really bad

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Again, a whole lotta room between $675 and $3,000. I’ll gladly take the operating cost advantage of an EV for day-to-day driving and family stuff and save the loud and rowdy petro-burning activities for my fun cars (Camaro and MR2). The money I save versus a gas CUV can go a long way towards keeping my gassy guys fed, polished, and happy.

I'm with you here! EV isn't possible for me yet, but I want a hybrid to replace my ICE(V8) daily when my Camaro arrives.

When I am in my own home next year maybe EV charging could become a possibility.

[Wyzz Kydd]

I just did a nationwide search on cargurus for a new Hyundai Ioniq EV. The lowest priced model is the SE Standard Range, which gives you 230 miles. There were two of them, one with a little over a thousand miles on it selling for $54,000 and one with about 800 miles on it selling for $58,000.

I switched the search to the Limited AWD and the prices went into the mid 60s. So a little cheaper than a ZL1.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I just did a nationwide search on cargurus for a new Hyundai Ioniq EV. The lowest priced model is the SE Standard Range, which gives you 230 miles. There were two of them, one with a little over a thousand miles on it selling for $54,000 and one with about 800 miles on it selling for $58,000.

I switched the search to the Limited AWD and the prices went into the mid 60s. So a little cheaper than a ZL1.

Was that sticker or dealer markup? Found these within minutes. 303 mile range, AWD. Wouldn’t be too surprised if dealers are marking them up $10,000.

[Realist]

I’m not a huge fan of automatic in my musclecars and could never get a ZL1 without a manual. That said, I have always loved the looks of the Challenger and going to start looking at videos and taking a closer look. The Hellcat is a special car just as a ZL1 and GT500. Maybe it’s easier to get one of the last built loaded up. I better go take my temperature.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Realist

I’m not a huge fan of automatic in my musclecars and could never get a ZL1 without a manual. That said, I have always loved the looks of the Challenger and going to start looking at videos and taking a closer look. The Hellcat is a special car just as a ZL1 and GT500. Maybe it’s easier to get one of the last built loaded up. I better go take my temperature.

I've thought the same. I really owe the wife a new car, would she be willing to wait while I added a Challenger wide body Hellcat to the stable?

[Trochoidal]

Originally Posted by jamala00

I don't know why every once and a while I make a post in these EV threads. I normally refrain because they are all the same talking points over and over and over and over... And on that note.. I'm out of this one too.. LOL

jamala00, this isn’t directed towards you. But your response kicked started this thought.

I’ve read these threads thoroughly as they popped up. I too have stayed away from commenting, except today. How about this talking point?

Let’s talk workforce being offset by the EV push. My main point is from the businesses that support ICE vehicles. Where do they exist in the future? I’m sure I’ll miss many manufacturers, but here’s a starting point.

Spark plugs/wires
Air filters
All oil products used in ICE (motor, transmission, differential)
Gaskets (intake manifold, heads, headers, water pump, etc)
Engine, transmission, transfer case, differential manufactures
Fuel pumps/ injectors
All exhaust components
Clutches

Now what about the service businesses?

Independent full service garages and also dealership technicians.
“Jiffy Lubes”
Transmission shops

I’m just talking about automotive industries.

Where does the trucking industry fit into this EV model?

Furthermore, does the marine and aviation industries fit in here anywhere?

Oh yeah, how do all of the aftermarket companies survive?

Maybe I’m not thinking outside of the box, but that seems like a lot of employees that will no longer be “needed”.

[Devstrike]

The trucking industry is an interesting discussion and one I have heard many times of "Good luck convincing a trucker to drive one." HD truck customers from the big 3 are probably the same way which I am assuming is why Ford dropped EV development in 2019 for the Superduty trucks. Obviously an HD pickup is not a semi truck but Semi truck makers and the US Government is going to have an incredibly hard time getting Semi truck drivers to adopt an EV semi and this is probably going to be the same thing for Commerical and personal use HD pickup customers as well. Performance vehicles like Camaro they can force with the exception of maybe Dodge seeing how that goes but the truck market good luck.


I wouldn't worry about the aftermarket or any of the service places for a couple decades or more there is enough nay sayers to EVs to keep them afloat for a long while.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Trochoidal

jamala00, this isn’t directed towards you. But your response kicked started this thought.

I’ve read these threads thoroughly as they popped up. I too have stayed away from commenting, except today. How about this talking point?

Let’s talk workforce being offset by the EV push. My main point is from the businesses that support ICE vehicles. Where do they exist in the future? I’m sure I’ll miss many manufacturers, but here’s a starting point.

Spark plugs/wires
Air filters
All oil products used in ICE (motor, transmission, differential)
Gaskets (intake manifold, heads, headers, water pump, etc)
Engine, transmission, transfer case, differential manufactures
Fuel pumps/ injectors
All exhaust components
Clutches

Now what about the service businesses?

Independent full service garages and also dealership technicians.
“Jiffy Lubes”
Transmission shops

I’m just talking about automotive industries.

Where does the trucking industry fit into this EV model?

Furthermore, does the marine and aviation industries fit in here anywhere?

Oh yeah, how do all of the aftermarket companies survive?

Maybe I’m not thinking outside of the box, but that seems like a lot of employees that will no longer be “needed”.

More wards of the state. For some that's not a bug, it's a feature.

[Gen6cyl]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

More wards of the state. For some that's not a bug, it's a feature.

And we are getting a million more every year across the southern non boarder.

[Trochoidal]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

I wouldn't worry about the aftermarket or any of the service places for a couple decades or more there is enough nay sayers to EVs to keep them afloat for a long while.

Yeah I guess time needs to pass to see how it all unfolds.

I’m surprised no one has invested in producing switchgrass ethanol (It’s not new but corn ethanol has been around since “gas-o-hol” days) that would keep them going with renewable fuel.

[Chrome383Z]

I like EV tech. I think it’s cool, it just kills the hobby for me. Now it’s totally pay to play. No buying an entry level (LT1) or mid level (SS) and modding to ZL1 power. The hobby will be dead.

Now my biggest concern is electricity. I work in that arena and it’s not pretty. We could support the EV transition, but we need more plants and stable ones (ie not solar/wind). You can’t build a plant overnight. It could take 5-10 years from conception to production with all of the fed red tape on fossile fuel plants. Preferably nuclear but good luck getting the public to support that. They are afraid of it.

Once we start having issues with blackouts and home energy prices spiking I see legislation limiting electrical HP on EV cars to help reduce demand.

And now my new target is 1K rwhp so I can pull one of these new chargers on a highway. lol. If the 900hp rumors are true may only need 700-800 given the thing will probably weigh 4 tons. Also road course racing (where I spend my time) isn’t great for EV. No doubt they will be the 1/4 mile kings if that’s your thing.