[nprario]

Just got back from getting an alignment. The shop says when they turn the toe links when tight the rear toe changes from +.15 degrees to +.09 degrees which is excessive. These links are maybe 8 months old or so. Any thoughts on this? Anyone else experience this and is this to be expected with the solid end links? Should I look at replacing with different units?


I have used this shop many times and trust their diagnosis.

[DaveC113]

I've seen some continuous issues with BMR roll bar mounts and such. I'd check out SPL.

[GreenZLE]

The shop I use gets it close with the links, tightens the jamb nuts down, and then does the final adjustment with the cam bolts. Thats another thing, with the BMR supplied hardware, there was slop so they used the factory cam bolts.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by nprario

Just got back from getting an alignment. The shop says when they turn the toe links when tight the rear toe changes from +.15 degrees to +.09 degrees which is excessive.

I don't understand. The BMR links are just spherical rod ends threaded into a tube with jam nuts to hold the setting. They are continuously variable in length, like any threaded rod. To adjust them, you loosen the jam nuts and then rotate the tube until you get the length (toe) you want, and then tighten the jam nut. How could anybody have trouble setting that correctly?

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I don't understand. The BMR links are just spherical rod ends threaded into a tube with jam nuts to hold the setting. They are continuously variable in length, like any threaded rod. To adjust them, you loosen the jam nuts and then rotate the tube until you get the length (toe) you want, and then tighten the jam nut. How could anybody have trouble setting that correctly?

Attachment 1087980

Agreed 100%. My tech had no trouble getting the alignment dialed in with the BMR stuff.

[nprario]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I don't understand. The BMR links are just spherical rod ends threaded into a tube with jam nuts to hold the setting. They are continuously variable in length, like any threaded rod. To adjust them, you loosen the jam nuts and then rotate the tube until you get the length (toe) you want, and then tighten the jam nut. How could anybody have trouble setting that correctly?

Attachment 1087980

Not sure I do either which is why I am asking. With the jamb nuts all tight after adjustment they said if they turn the link it will induce toe change. One of the selling points of these is that it reduces the toe change inherent in the rubber bushings on the stock links. They deal with many race cars and told me that the spherical ends might not be perfectly round or ?? but that it should not change when the jamb nuts are tight and it does. Does not sound like anyone else has come across this then.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by nprario

Not sure I do either which is why I am asking. With the jamb nuts all tight after adjustment they said if they turn the link it will induce toe change. One of the selling points of these is that it reduces the toe change inherent in the rubber bushings on the stock links. They deal with many race cars and told me that the spherical ends might not be perfectly round or ?? but that it should not change when the jamb nuts are tight and it does. Does not sound like anyone else has come across this then.

Still confused by this. Once the jam nuts are tightened, the tube rod ends can't turn in the threaded tube. If they mean they are turning it on the actual bearings, then it will have a some movement around them (~20 degrees total rotation, mabye?). I wouldn't expect the toe to change around that, but I'd have to look at the geometry to really know for sure. That picture I posted isn't really clear enough to tell. I seriously doubt it's something to worry about: I don't see how the bearings can have significant runout and still allow free movement. My guess is that it's something in the stock geometry.

[nprario]

Yea, bearing runout is what they were suggesting. I honestly can't see it either but was just wondering if it was a thing that anyone else had experienced.

[sr71bb]

Originally Posted by nprario

Just got back from getting an alignment. The shop says when they turn the toe links when tight the rear toe changes from +.15 degrees to +.09 degrees which is excessive. These links are maybe 8 months old or so. Any thoughts on this? Anyone else experience this and is this to be expected with the solid end links? Should I look at replacing with different units?


I have used this shop many times and trust their diagnosis.

Ok Well BMR in GENERAL makes some high quality parts but they are NOT on the level of SPLPARTS. I have SPL Toe Rods and they are the BEST. The alignment settings have NEVER changed since the day they were installed and I use the car as a daily driver and do track days 2-3 times a month.. I also have BOTH BMR front and REAR adjustable away bars. The bearing holders on the FRONT BMR sway bars STOCK are JUNK but you can correct that by getting a BILLET bearing holder from BMR at a cost of about 300 dollars. HOTCHKIS actually makes the best FRONT sway bar but they are rarely in stock which is why I bought the BMR and billet bearing holders.

Alignment settings SHOULD NOT change except possibly due to wear and tear.

[Msquared]

I'm 100% sure that neither BMR nor SPL are making their own spherical bearings. Those are almost certainly off-the-shelf parts from a company like Aurora. You should be able to look at them see and brand and part number. So it would be easy enough to get replacements, if needed.

Also, I seriously doubt anyone else has ever tried the "twist test" that the OP's shop is doing. For all we know, every spherical bearing toe link does the same thing due to some geometry situation. I'm not sure.

If the bearings have slop, that's somewhat understandable and they need to be replaced. You can easily check for slop by feel and eyesight. I guess the way they could have runout would be if the bolt holes through their centers weren't actually centered. But unless these were sourced from some really low-quality factory in China, I can't imagine that either. OP, maybe someone here has a good way to measure for runout, but I can't think of one. I'd take a close look at the bearings and maybe use some calipers to try to verify that they are concentric. Figure out what brand and part number they are and let us know if you can. Worst case is you buy some new rod ends and put them back in. I had to replace some on a my C4 once I seem to recall that the Aurora Teflon-lined rod ends were less than $15/ea.

[nprario]

Good information. Thanks Matt.

[GreenZLE]

I'll ask the shop I use when I can but I think they were saying there's a slight change when the jamb nuts are tightened. Maybe its because of thread slop?

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I'll ask the shop I use when I can but I think they were saying there's a slight change when the jamb nuts are tightened. Maybe its because of thread slop?

If that's the case, I can easily believe that. That would make more sense.

[L78toLT1]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I'll ask the shop I use when I can but I think they were saying there's a slight change when the jamb nuts are tightened. Maybe its because of thread slop?

Thread slop gets my vote. When adjusting valve lash on mechanical, overhead cam car and bike engines, you have to set the lash a few mils tighter in order to achieve the proper lash once the jamb nuts are tightened.