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Old 09-29-2017, 05:03 PM   #29
ShizzySupra
 
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So glad I bought a Maggie, Cam Kit, Pistons/Rods, Full Fuel System, Alky Control Kit, and everything else as my "Stage 1". lol
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:10 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShizzySupra View Post
So glad I bought a Maggie, Cam Kit, Pistons/Rods, Full Fuel System, Alky Control Kit, and everything else as my "Stage 1". lol
CMS/CP-Carrillo piston/rod drop ins?
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtlforlife View Post
CMS/CP-Carrillo piston/rod drop ins?
Yup!
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShizzySupra View Post
Yup!
Would love chance to pick your brain on that solution, impacts from lowered compression, more boost, mileage, ect.

CMS is in my neighborhood and I'm chewing on their solution or something more comprehensive from TSP but possibly overkill.

Apologize for going off thread topic.
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:24 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShizzySupra View Post
So glad I bought a Maggie, Cam Kit, Pistons/Rods, Full Fuel System, Alky Control Kit, and everything else as my "Stage 1". lol
It was only a matter time before I have more toys, not like you plebs, post comes out on a non-inter-cooled kit discussion...
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Old 09-30-2017, 12:50 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by oldman View Post
It was only a matter time before I have more toys, not like you plebs, post comes out on a non-inter-cooled kit discussion...
You are misconstruing everything I am saying and are getting defensive.

Hope whatever you choose works out great for you.
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ProCharger View Post
Ummmm, not true at alllllllllllll at least not about roots/screws.

Even a screw supercharger manufacture states this on their website.
(KenneBell)

"Centrifugals run cooler at idle because they are not compressing air (boost) like the positive displacement superchargers."

"so, of course the “idle” temps are higher. Again, you look at the higher efficiency and boost of a 15-30 psi Twin Screw and the benefits. Higher IAT’s are unavoidable"

I'm not saying it the end of the world.
But your statement isn't factual and is misleading.

These heat factors are why an entire section of the industry is devoted to "Cooling Mods" for cars like the CTS-V, or ZL-1, etc. etc.

Again, not the end of the world.
Just want to make sure facts are being talked about.

NOTE: If you are talking about a Centrifugal or Turbo, then YES... you are correct. Boost = Heat.
Screws and Roots cannot be grouped - Screws SCs have internal compression, Roots SC do not.

When a roots device is at cruise - the SC is under manifold vacuum (lower air density to spin the rotors in) and it is simply recirculating the from the SC outlet to the SC inlet, input power to the device is very low and heating is minimal. While there is some temp increase, it is due to the recirculation of the low density air and lack of fresh inlet air. Once the throttle is opened there is a rapid drop in temp due to fresh air induction followed by a gradual rise as manifold compression occurs.

A screw device is under the same manifold vacuum except the device is compressing and releasing within the rotor mesh during cruise even though the compression is not needed. The bypass valve routes the excess outlet air back to the inlet, but it cannot turn off the internal compression. This results in increased supercharger input power at idle/cruise, increased manifold temps, and reduces fuel economy compared to the roots.

A centrifugal supercharger is always operating at atmospheric pressure since it located before the throttle body. This allows it the benefit of not having to recirculate the air back to the inlet of the SC providing a continual flow of fresh air. While this keeps temps down it also costs in the form of SC input power at cruise conditions the due to pumping full atmospheric pressure air through the device and higher mechanical losses compared to a roots or screw from the gear drive system to achieve the necessary RPM to make a centrifugal compressor operate.
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Old 10-02-2017, 08:31 PM   #36
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Nice
I had a whip pile before which is a Lysholm so a screw. These new twisted Eatons are looking more like a Lysholm do they still behave like a roots or are the in between a trans blower?
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Old 10-02-2017, 09:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
wold like to see a dyno. In the olddays, both turbo and non-intercooled supercargers were more of the norm, I drove types over say 200,000 miles. I felt the gain and bang for the dollar to be worth it, mild boost levels from 5 to 7 PSI. I'd like to see a dyno of of this setup and about how long the mix would last on the street... say 1 gallon and I do 20 seconds of wot every day or 50 miles a day.
I have run both scenarios

I setup the engine dyno with a completely stock LT1 (including all stock fuel system) with a Magnuson Heartbeat 2300. I used good old California Chevron 91 octane in the tank and outfitted the throttle body inlet tube with a dual large nozzle AEM water injection system delivering up to 1600 cc/min of a 50/50 water/meth mix. Engine was tuned to for max power under both conditions (pulley timing and A/F) and while I really thought they would make about the same power, they did not.

Intercooled made 729 HP
Non - Intercooled made 678 HP

It seemed the biggest trouble I ran into when trying to run high levels of water/meth injection without the intercoolers was cylinder to cylinder distribution. The intercoolers in the mainfold seem to do a nice job of driving distribution throughout the manifold. I would have like to try straight methanol which would possibly help with distribution, but time didn't allow.

Now, with that being said, the addition of water/meth to this engine/sc combination added about 110 HP overall on pump gas (intercooled or not) and the NON intercooled SC system with water/meth made ~ 60 HP over the base intercooled SC kit on pump gas alone.

So, if the question is can you make as much power with the non intercooled kit with water injection as you can with the intercooled kit? The answer is an easy yet - but no matter which way you look at it (with or without water/meth), the intercoolers add at least 50 HP to the system...
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toohighpsi View Post
Screws and Roots cannot be grouped - Screws SCs have internal compression, Roots SC do not.

When a roots device is at cruise - the SC is under manifold vacuum (lower air density to spin the rotors in) and it is simply recirculating the from the SC outlet to the SC inlet, input power to the device is very low and heating is minimal. While there is some temp increase, it is due to the recirculation of the low density air and lack of fresh inlet air. Once the throttle is opened there is a rapid drop in temp due to fresh air induction followed by a gradual rise as manifold compression occurs.

A screw device is under the same manifold vacuum except the device is compressing and releasing within the rotor mesh during cruise even though the compression is not needed. The bypass valve routes the excess outlet air back to the inlet, but it cannot turn off the internal compression. This results in increased supercharger input power at idle/cruise, increased manifold temps, and reduces fuel economy compared to the roots.

A centrifugal supercharger is always operating at atmospheric pressure since it located before the throttle body. This allows it the benefit of not having to recirculate the air back to the inlet of the SC providing a continual flow of fresh air. While this keeps temps down it also costs in the form of SC input power at cruise conditions the due to pumping full atmospheric pressure air through the device and higher mechanical losses compared to a roots or screw from the gear drive system to achieve the necessary RPM to make a centrifugal compressor operate.


You basically just wrote exactly what I was saying in my original post...
Though I didn't want to add a bunch of tech stuff and confuse people

Cliff notes on BOTH of our posts.

Roots = Temp increase when not in boost.
Screw = Temp increase when not in boost.

Centri = no temp increase when not in boost
Turbo = no temp increase when not in boost


Which makes the quote below incorrect, by now THREE people.

- You, that works for a Roots blower manufacture.
- KenneBells own website that builds screws.
- Myself that works for ProCharger a centirfugal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Please understand the blower only makes heat when making boost.


Again, just as I stated in my post... all of this isn't the end of the world.
And really isn't a big deal. However, its not factual to say things like that.

Thats all I was trying to say.
Members of this forum want to hear FACTS, not opinions.

I appreciate your posts always, since they are always solid.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:11 AM   #39
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When someone suggest blowers super heat air while driving normally I have to disagree.

It is all a matter of perception.

When does any forced induction make the most heat? when in boost.

As you can see I said Blowers which groups them all together.

I hear the term Heat soak which is the most misunderstood over used comment in any Forced induction forum on the internet.

This is what I was referring to.

You only selected the part of my comment you want to argue about.

Quote:
Please understand the blower only makes heat when making boost.

Driving around normal will stabilize the IAT at a point above ambient, Same as an N/A car.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:13 AM   #40
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What fuel system upgrades would be needed so you could run the Non IC maggie with E85? Would a pump voltage booster suffice?
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProCharger View Post

Roots = Temp increase when not in boost.
Screw = Temp increase when not in boost.

Centri = no temp increase when not in boost
Turbo = no temp increase when not in boost


Which makes the quote below incorrect, by now THREE people.

- You, that works for a Roots blower manufacture.
- KenneBells own website that builds screws.
- Myself that works for ProCharger a centirfugal.
If you read my response carefully you would have understood that this heating that you are referring to is an illusion, the contents of the SC is in a vacuum - which means what? A lack of air - so what exactly are you heating? - nothing.
As soon as throttle is opened - then there is air, this vacuum is filled, and the temp measurement of "nothing" is gone.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
Nice
I had a whip pile before which is a Lysholm so a screw. These new twisted Eatons are looking more like a Lysholm do they still behave like a roots or are the in between a trans blower?
Even being twisted, the TVS are still a traditional roots. Roots SC normally have mirror image rotor which inherently creates large leakpath in the outlet side of the rotor set refered to as a "blowhole" which prevents compression. The improvements in the TVS supercharger compared to the previous Eaton designs are based around the inlet side of the SC. Since it is an axially fed SC, the focus was based on the filling event of the control volumes in the SC (8 volumes in the case of a TVS). The rotor twist was altered to optimize these events resulting in the reduced power consumption and increased compressor efficiency.

To realize internal compression (like a screw) you need inter-meshing male and female rotors spinning different speeds (5/3, 6/4, etc). Theoretically internal compression makes them more efficient. Real World? That might be another story... manufacturing process has it's pitfalls and impact on performance.
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