Since it is so dead around here lets talk about:

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

I guess you have not been watching Barrett Jackson that has been on tv the last few days.

That's not a large enough statistical sample to say one way or another on car price trends. Although there are some doofuses that see something go across the stage on TV for whatever price and then think their 80K mile car is worth the same thing. Seen it too many times.

In the big scheme of things, ZL1s were made in enough numbers to still find one for a decent price if you really want to dig for it. But as with anything, the more people wrap them around trees and blow them up, attrition takes its toll. And the ones that are left will fetch better money than a used up POS. But in all honesty, the market will get a bit softer before it gets stronger. People pay more for groceries nowdays than they do car payments.

The EV market is already saturating, at least for now, and those people with extra cash are buying stuff faster at BJ's than they are from the EV dealerships. Don't believe me, just look around. Cart before horse. Ford's cutting back, Dodge is all but confirming ICE Chargers, and all the while, Cadillac is going to have its azz hanging out in the wind soon. I think Mary really wants to sink some ships. I'll have to dig up the old thread where I said to mark it on the calendar a while back about the slowdown. And wait for the layoffs that are coming. Hate to see it, but it will happen. Not using an "all the above approach" model is going to hit at least one of these companies hard.

And for the truth, the majority of those with disposable cash are the ones buying EVs (and not one person I know that has an EV bought it as their only vehicle). Joe Paycheck is not buying them, and is not planning to, apparently. Idiots who forced this mess on us are finally learning that in the end, the consumer will dictate which products succeed and which ones do not. A used EV will be about as worthless as an AM radio. The minute I see an EV at Barrett Jackson, I'm done. I've owned a lot of cars that could be beaten by something else. Big deal. Cars were supposed to be flying by now, as it is. Whatever happened to that?

But enough about EVs, as they don't even factor in to this discussion anyway. Nobody can look cool driving an EV, anyway. You just can't. If you think you do, might want to reassess that. Sure, they have a purpose. A to B, but not in the very cold temps apparently. That's it.

Although it's real tough to tell what's in store for used muscle, I still think a well-taken care of 5th gen ZL1 will still have value. Everyone thought the same about 4th gen SS's too, but now look at what people are selling them for. About 10 years ago, you could get a nice low mile one for around 12-13. Now they're 25K and up. That's why I sold mine in 2013 for 11,500.

[0stones0]

^^^^^
This. Is what it is.

[JBZL1]

Funny thing, I never considered value or resale , I just knew I would keep it forever. I drive it like I stole it , the sound, smell , the obnoxiously loud exhaust, man does it bring a smile to my face! My wife calls my drives therapy lol

[Brutale arancia]

Originally Posted by JBZL1

Funny thing. I would keep it forever. I drive it like I stole it.

The best of both worlds, but can it be done?

[Bigtime53]

The EV market is already saturating, at least for now, and those people with extra cash are buying stuff faster at BJ's than they are from the EV dealerships. Don't believe me, just look around. Cart before horse. Ford's cutting back, Dodge is all but confirming ICE Chargers, and all the while, Cadillac is going to have its azz hanging out in the wind soon. I think Mary really wants to sink some ships. I'll have to dig up the old thread where I said to mark it on the calendar a while back about the slowdown. And wait for the layoffs that are coming. Hate to see it, but it will happen. Not using an "all the above approach" model is going to hit at least one of these companies hard.


I guess you will be done then because Barrett Jackson had some EV's sold there. The mess these EV's got into the other day when the weather got really cold they left alot of people on the side of the road with dead batteries. Maybe I am wrong which happens alot I really do not think the EV market will be able to sustain. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years they might get it figured out but in the near future it is not going to happen.

[Gstick]

Originally Posted by el ess A

That's not a large enough statistical sample to say one way or another on car price trends. Although there are some doofuses that see something go across the stage on TV for whatever price and then think their 80K mile car is worth the same thing. Seen it too many times.

In the big scheme of things, ZL1s were made in enough numbers to still find one for a decent price if you really want to dig for it. But as with anything, the more people wrap them around trees and blow them up, attrition takes its toll. And the ones that are left will fetch better money than a used up POS. But in all honesty, the market will get a bit softer before it gets stronger. People pay more for groceries nowdays than they do car payments.

The EV market is already saturating, at least for now, and those people with extra cash are buying stuff faster at BJ's than they are from the EV dealerships. Don't believe me, just look around. Cart before horse. Ford's cutting back, Dodge is all but confirming ICE Chargers, and all the while, Cadillac is going to have its azz hanging out in the wind soon. I think Mary really wants to sink some ships. I'll have to dig up the old thread where I said to mark it on the calendar a while back about the slowdown. And wait for the layoffs that are coming. Hate to see it, but it will happen. Not using an "all the above approach" model is going to hit at least one of these companies hard.

And for the truth, the majority of those with disposable cash are the ones buying EVs (and not one person I know that has an EV bought it as their only vehicle). Joe Paycheck is not buying them, and is not planning to, apparently. Idiots who forced this mess on us are finally learning that in the end, the consumer will dictate which products succeed and which ones do not. A used EV will be about as worthless as an AM radio. The minute I see an EV at Barrett Jackson, I'm done. I've owned a lot of cars that could be beaten by something else. Big deal. Cars were supposed to be flying by now, as it is. Whatever happened to that?

But enough about EVs, as they don't even factor in to this discussion anyway. Nobody can look cool driving an EV, anyway. You just can't. If you think you do, might want to reassess that. Sure, they have a purpose. A to B, but not in the very cold temps apparently. That's it.

Although it's real tough to tell what's in store for used muscle, I still think a well-taken care of 5th gen ZL1 will still have value. Everyone thought the same about 4th gen SS's too, but now look at what people are selling them for. About 10 years ago, you could get a nice low mile one for around 12-13. Now they're 25K and up. That's why I sold mine in 2013 for 11,500.

Nailed it

[Bigtime53]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I don't expect any huge sudden jump in prices. Why would they? Historically what muscle car has? Made in big numbers.
I love the '69 looks and they hold the most value of the old Camaros. There were the 6pak mopars and 426 hemi's which I'd compare more to the Hellcats and redeyes. The demons are more like the old ZL1 427s or something rare.
Mechum isn't the best way to determine values. Someone bids up something they have an itch for and money burning a hole in their pocket and compete not to be "beaten" in their bid from that other SOB. I'm surprised real V8s are popular at all having witnessed that 4cyl scene that replaced all the V8 magazine covers with 20s and under crowd. I thought that was their end.
Supply and demand. For every 1 that prefers the superior Camaro there are 9 that follow the crowds and go for the Dodge. I said this years ago before they made the RE or Demon and the prediction still holds true.
The epa restrictions get worse and worse. I know you don't feel it yet where you are and you might not in your lifetime but they continue to get worse. In California not only do they inspect it they plug into the OBD and if there is the tinyest bit of a tune even, say, changing the fan temp it fails.
The Tesla 3 Performance costs a fraction of a Redeye new ZL1 or Demon and will smoke them on the street 0-60 or 1/8 or 1/4 not because of more hp but more traction with AWD. I don't always agree with the If you can't beat 'em Join 'em. But I'm going to be sticking to EV performance.

Your last sentence "I'm going to stick to EV performance" makes me smile! I see your from California so that makes since. BUT have you thought about what batteries cost when they give out on you? You can buy a motor and transmission for a car alot less than you can those batteries. Heck you could buy ten motors and transmissions I imagine for what one set of batteries cost. I guess I am old school but I would not ever trade or buy an EV to replace any gas burner vehicle I have.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by tartagliazl1

I bought a 24 jeep grand Cherokee 4xE hybrid I’ve owned it since last June and only put 7 tanks of gas in it. It’s a really nice jeep. I traded in my 18 jeep grand Cherokee. It was worth it just for the EV gas savings. Like silver said it’s great to travel around town in just electric mode.

https://autos.yahoo.com/2024-jeep-wr...110000028.html
I stumbled onto this article this morning. Wow 470ft torq in the 4xe plug in hybrid. That is Scat Pack number! same as their $100k 392hemi rubicon! at half the cost. I wanted a plug in hybrid but got a hybrid crossover and a full EV crossover because what I wanted not available in plug in hybrid mostly. I see why you enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

Your last sentence "I'm going to stick to EV performance" makes me smile! I see your from California so that makes since. BUT have you thought about what batteries cost when they give out on you? You can buy a motor and transmission for a car alot less than you can those batteries. Heck you could buy ten motors and transmissions I imagine for what one set of batteries cost. I guess I am old school but I would not ever trade or buy an EV to replace any gas burner vehicle I have.

If you think being forced to live in California makes me "one of those" you are quite wrong. I'm not a nuts greenie, Just sayin'. My teens were growing up not so far from Oklahoma. I did my homework on battery life and they are good for 100s of thousands of miles. They typically lose like 8% of their range then, about 5% in the first 50k miles then very slowly after that. So unless they fail you're good, same as your engine and tranny might fail in a normal car. If you can't afford that after the warranty period lease one, sell it or don't buy one if you can't afford to take that chance. Same really as any other car if you can't afford an engine. And btw the cold weather thing is mostly overblown. 83% of new vehicles sold in Norway are EVs, what does that tell you about ability to work in the cold? Reminds me of when we switched from carbs to EFI. I ain't gettin' no damn computer in my car...
I really don't care if others want or need or chose a normal car, Just sharing my experience and I know what sports cars are. I've grown up with them from 327s in 70s to mod 454 sticks in 80s to mod ZL1 now. I'm really not going to go out of my way further to teach or convince anyone. Keep payin' $$ to fill up your tanks. Don't get a hybrid or EV.


Edit: however like EL SA said that profile fits me, I have a different car and disposable income, not that it matters on saving money on gas? I guess that's why I have disposable income I save money where I can.

[morepowerjoe]

I don't really have much to add to this thread other than a couple points. There are us gearheads out here that continue to want or desire to be able to wrench on our own vehicles and dare I say modify them. We do what we do because it's our therapy and we get enjoyment out of doing it. Try and say I replaced my batteries in my car today, not going to happen. I can say I'm currently on my second rebuild of my engine and it's not cheap by any means but I'm not going ev anytime soon and my son works at Tesla. It's not the cost that gets me at all. Heck I probably could have bought at least one or two Tesla's for what I've spent on my car. It's like I was saying it just gives me pleasure out of being able to fix my own stuff. And as far as resale value goes, I don't really give a rats a** about that anyways since I will be probably taking my 5th gen to the grave. The only time I will consider getting rid of my car is when parts are no longer available for it but I think there will always be an aftermarket world out there to step in, hopefully.

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by Bigtime53

I guess you will be done then because Barrett Jackson had some EV's sold there.

One more reason not to watch that stuff.

I guess I should 'fess up I haven't paid too much attention to any Barrett Jackson or Mecum auctions in a LONG time simply because of the stupidity of both sellers and buyers in the past several years of not knowing what the car should have on it, not have on it, 100% stock EXCEPT for (fill in the blank with a lot of stuff), fake "tribute" cars, and all that. The scant few of really correct and nice cars that roll across the stage are getting super-scarce, apparently, so I find watching those auctions aren't as fun as they used to be. They could put up an electric golf cart and get the same reaction from me now.

I'm not anti-EV. Go buy one if you can afford it. I do not care. EV's may have their time, but it isn't right now. It just isn't. So I wish the bozos in charge of making policies that are pushing it would understand you can't just flip a switch or enact a policy and make it happen in a few weeks or even a few years. Because it won't.

But back to the real world and the main topic of discussion. Of all the 2012-2015 5th Gen ZL1s, one would be hard pressed to figure out which year would be more "valuable" (super-subjective) to potential buyers. 2012 because it was the first? 2015 because it was the last of the 5th gens,

In the meantime, I think we owe it to ourselves as ZL1 owners, or really ANY 5th gen Camaro owner, to reflect on the reasons that drew us to the car in the first place. To me, and I'm ultra-biased, the 5th gen could never be one of those cars you just bought because it fit in the driveway and "just transportation." I got two of them because I love to get behind the wheel and drive them.

It's almost like the person you fell in love with. They fill an emotional void. And although the numbers of cars may get fewer as time marches on, the passion to keep enjoying them by working on them, driving them, or both remains strong. And whether stock, modified, or all out race prepped, just continue to enjoy it until it's time. And you'll know when that time comes. For some of us it may be after WE expire. YMMV.

[Pops]

AMAZING. The EV was supposed to be for transportation and economy. It does not have to be be priced at the top of the scale. It can be a small economical basic a-b vehicle. As of right now the majority of elititist mentality is buying in to a 100K plus vehicle that has costly unmanagable charging requirements for the masses of people it is supposedly designed for. With no range. BS why buy into this crap.

[Bigtime53]

Originally Posted by el ess A

One more reason not to watch that stuff.

I guess I should 'fess up I haven't paid too much attention to any Barrett Jackson or Mecum auctions in a LONG time simply because of the stupidity of both sellers and buyers in the past several years of not knowing what the car should have on it, not have on it, 100% stock EXCEPT for (fill in the blank with a lot of stuff), fake "tribute" cars, and all that. The scant few of really correct and nice cars that roll across the stage are getting super-scarce, apparently, so I find watching those auctions aren't as fun as they used to be. They could put up an electric golf cart and get the same reaction from me now.

I'm not anti-EV. Go buy one if you can afford it. I do not care. EV's may have their time, but it isn't right now. It just isn't. So I wish the bozos in charge of making policies that are pushing it would understand you can't just flip a switch or enact a policy and make it happen in a few weeks or even a few years. Because it won't.

But back to the real world and the main topic of discussion. Of all the 2012-2015 5th Gen ZL1s, one would be hard pressed to figure out which year would be more "valuable" (super-subjective) to potential buyers. 2012 because it was the first? 2015 because it was the last of the 5th gens,

In the meantime, I think we owe it to ourselves as ZL1 owners, or really ANY 5th gen Camaro owner, to reflect on the reasons that drew us to the car in the first place. To me, and I'm ultra-biased, the 5th gen could never be one of those cars you just bought because it fit in the driveway and "just transportation." I got two of them because I love to get behind the wheel and drive them.

It's almost like the person you fell in love with. They fill an emotional void. And although the numbers of cars may get fewer as time marches on, the passion to keep enjoying them by working on them, driving them, or both remains strong. And whether stock, modified, or all out race prepped, just continue to enjoy it until it's time. And you'll know when that time comes. For some of us it may be after WE expire. YMMV.

I totally agree with everything you just said and I take my hat off to you!!

[silversleeper]

https://autos.yahoo.com/gm-reverses-...143004574.html


So plug in hybrids are going to be a focus as they should. Will we see the next gen Camaro as such? 470ft lbs torq great mpg?
It's important to note, the electric motors don't have the high drivetrain losses like our Camaro's so it's like they are under rated on HP and Torq.

[0stones0]

Motor vs. engine… I’ll take the engine…