[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

You better check the date on that video. He drives a Mach 1 now and still has his Grand Sport. No more 1LE

Thanks for the update. That he would switch to a Mustang is surprising to me.
what doesn't surprise me is that he kept his GranSport, as it was the Goldilocks version of the C7 in terms of handling.

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by JacobC1983

I have a ZL1 with the A10 and use the car for at least 10 autocross events and several track days a year. I love the A10 for autocross. I manually shift it to 2nd and 3rd. There is power everywhere in the powerband. It pulls hard out of a corner but you can save yourself sometimes using third depending on the corner. I had a SS 1LE with the 6 speed for two years before the ZL1. I wouldn't change the 10 speed for anything. It fits how I drive, in some ways its actually more fun because there is power on tap at any speed, whereas in the 6 speed I was having to sometimes downshift to first which was too low a gear, but then 2nd wasn't fast enough out of the corner. 10 speed for the win.

Hmmmm...that is most interesting Jacob.
Because of your post, I might reconsider the M6.
44 pounds is an unusually small weight penalty for going automatic compared to many other sports cars; someone else on the forum said that is a 1.5% worse power-to-weight ratio for the A10 vs M6.
I have seen one very seasoned champion autocrosser say that consistency is the key, and for that reason he recommends automatics to minimize the risk of error that will screw up a run.

Have you seen other autocrossers who are similarly enthusiastic about the A10?
You don't feel that it's shifting too often on the autocross course?
If I'm reading you correctly, whatever negatives there may be are far outweighed by the positives of always being in the correct power band wherever you are on the course.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Also, I'm in California, where now Copper free brakes are mandated.
That means that one gets the ZL1 brakes on the SS 1LE. Am I correct in assuming therefore that there would be less problem with ice mode with ZL1 brakes?

There are only around 4 competitive tires for SCCA street autocross classes the last time I checked. The copper free brake package prevents you from running 18" wheels (or at least some of them) due to clearance issues with the caliper from what I've read so make sure that your desired tires are made in 20" or 19" diameter in the correct widths beforehand.

[DaveC113]

The ice mode issues are overblown imo, but quite real. I have an '18 and haven't once experienced it, and while I'm not national level fast I'm not slow either. We also have a national champ who is driving a '17 SS and he has no issues with it either.

It seems related to the driver's technique and it can be mitigated. It's also related to the course, in general if you hit the brakes and the car senses too large a differential in wheel speed from right to left it will engage "ice mode". If one side of the car is on a lower traction surface and you hit the brakes hard it can cause the car to spin. If this happens as a result of the right side of the car drifting off the road or into an icy shoulder it can result in a spin into oncoming traffic, which is bad and the main reason ice mode exists.

We have one driver in a GT350 who has experienced ice mode and left-foot braking sent it into limp mode which required the battery to be disconnected so it would reset. I've heard ice mode happening with plenty of other brands as well.

GM hired an engineer to better tune the ABS and these updates went into effect for the '19 model year, so it is true the ABS is improved in '19+ cars.

[JacobC1983]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Hmmmm...that is most interesting Jacob.
Because of your post, I might reconsider the M6.
44 pounds is an unusually small weight penalty for going automatic compared to many other sports cars; someone else on the forum said that is a 1.5% worse power-to-weight ratio for the A10 vs M6.
I have seen one very seasoned champion autocrosser say that consistency is the key, and for that reason he recommends automatics to minimize the risk of error that will screw up a run.

Have you seen other autocrossers who are similarly enthusiastic about the A10?
You don't feel that it's shifting too often on the autocross course?
If I'm reading you correctly, whatever negatives there may be are far outweighed by the positives of always being in the correct power band wherever you are on the course.

Most guys at my local SCCA autocross that have camaros are manuals. I have seen another A10 ZL1 there but he wasn't good enough to compete with the rest of us. I can only give you my opinions; and for a car like a SS 1LE with less horsepower than my ZL1, the 10 speed would be even more helpful picking the right gear at the right places. It just gives more options in an ever changing autocross course. I only have to shift to third occasionally,usually one spot per run. The rest of the course is in 2nd usually, but I will say the 10 speed is amazing. I love it. I wouldn't go back. I won my class (AS) in my ZL1, and usually PAX top 5 in an area with 70 or so contestants.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by JacobC1983

Most guys at my local SCCA autocross that have camaros are manuals. I have seen another A10 ZL1 there but he wasn't good enough to compete with the rest of us. I can only give you my opinions; and for a car like a SS 1LE with less horsepower than my ZL1, the 10 speed would be even more helpful picking the right gear at the right places. It just gives more options in an ever changing autocross course. I only have to shift to third occasionally,usually one spot per run. The rest of the course is in 2nd usually, but I will say the 10 speed is amazing. I love it. I wouldn't go back. I won my class (AS) in my ZL1, and usually PAX top 5 in an area with 70 or so contestants.

Yeah second gear in the m6 is a bit long and coming off tight slow corners is annoying. Even though my 19” tires makes my effective rear ratio around 3.87/1. Bigger faster turns it isn’t a big deal as you are going to have to slow for the next turn anyway .

[JacobC1983]

I will say I do get a lot of hate from manual guys - granted these are my friends, we have to give each other trouble - lets just say they have gotten tired of losing.

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

There are only around 4 competitive tires for SCCA street autocross classes the last time I checked. The copper free brake package prevents you from running 18" wheels (or at least some of them) due to clearance issues with the caliper from what I've read so make sure that your desired tires are made in 20" or 19" diameter in the correct widths beforehand.

very specialized knowledge and I appreciated!
I have read about some folks running 19 inch rims square, which is what I suppose I would do eventually but as a beginner I think I would just stick with stock rims and tires until my skill level warrants spending some extra money. I'm definitely going to save this thread for posterity! Lots of great information.

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

The ice mode issues are overblown imo, but quite real. I have an '18 and haven't once experienced it, and while I'm not national level fast I'm not slow either. We also have a national champ who is driving a '17 SS and he has no issues with it either.

It seems related to the driver's technique and it can be mitigated. It's also related to the course, in general if you hit the brakes and the car senses too large a differential in wheel speed from right to left it will engage "ice mode". If one side of the car is on a lower traction surface and you hit the brakes hard it can cause the car to spin. If this happens as a result of the right side of the car drifting off the road or into an icy shoulder it can result in a spin into oncoming traffic, which is bad and the main reason ice mode exists.

We have one driver in a GT350 who has experienced ice mode and left-foot braking sent it into limp mode which required the battery to be disconnected so it would reset. I've heard ice mode happening with plenty of other brands as well.

GM hired an engineer to better tune the ABS and these updates went into effect for the '19 model year, so it is true the ABS is improved in '19+ cars.

Wow... That was a bad day for the GT 350 driver!
Kudos to GM for spending the money to make that change. There is a lot to be said for driving a car where some of the engineers designing that car are enthusiasts and show up at the same events you do (The Performance Driving Team), as is the case for the Camaro.

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by JacobC1983

Most guys at my local SCCA autocross that have camaros are manuals. I have seen another A10 ZL1 there but he wasn't good enough to compete with the rest of us. I can only give you my opinions; and for a car like a SS 1LE with less horsepower than my ZL1, the 10 speed would be even more helpful picking the right gear at the right places. It just gives more options in an ever changing autocross course. I only have to shift to third occasionally,usually one spot per run. The rest of the course is in 2nd usually, but I will say the 10 speed is amazing. I love it. I wouldn't go back. I won my class (AS) in my ZL1, and usually PAX top 5 in an area with 70 or so contestants.

thank you Jacob.
Sounds like you been doing this quite a while, congratulations on the win.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

very specialized knowledge and I appreciated!
I have read about some folks running 19 inch rims square, which is what I suppose I would do eventually but as a beginner I think I would just stick with stock rims and tires until my skill level warrants spending some extra money. I'm definitely going to save this thread for posterity! Lots of great information.

A square setup might give you more oversteer than is optimal for autocross according to the last few pages of this autocross thread. Square setup is more popular for track days since you can rotate front to rear (spacers might be required for this) to get more life out of your tires.

Fast Autocross Tire Abbreviations:
Falkens = Falken Azenis RT660
Yoks = Yokohama Advan A052
Rivals = BFGoodrich g-Force Rival S 1.5
Stones = Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R (discontinued but stock may still exist for some sizes)

As a beginner, you should definitely enjoy the car for autocross on the stock tires! If your goal is having fun, there is no need to get different tires. I just wanted to point out some of the things to consider if your goal is to be competitive with the car. Driving autocross courses with the traction/stability control off was a low risk way for me to gain a feel for the car and confidence to do the same at track days.

[IntegraR0064]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Thank you crrptrks... I looked at the thread, and it looks like I should be able to sidestep the ice break mode issue by purchasing a 2022 SS 1LE. Strangely, new seems to be a better value at sticker price then used because of inflated pandemic related used car prices.
Am I correct that on a new SS 1LE, the ice mode issue is largely gone although I suspect under the right conditions it can still occur?
Is the aftermarket E-diff tune legal for street classes in autocross?
Yes, I have seen in many videos that most drivers shift once in the second and leave it there.
I'm glad the ice mode issue has been fixed for the most part since 2020. I have been on the fence about an M2 versus a Camaro and despite the Camaro quality issues (paint, valve springs among others) the mag ride, better steering feel, more power, better crash safety on the street seem to outweigh the M2 virtues of build quality, visibility, and shorter wheelbase.

Also, I'm in California, where now Copper free brakes are mandated.
That means that one gets the ZL1 brakes on the SS 1LE. Am I correct in assuming therefore that there would be less problem with ice mode with ZL1 brakes?

I have a 2019 and I've never experienced ice mode. Has a lot to do with driving style though, if you're jabbing the brakes while turned or something, especially if you're going off the driving line and finding gravel or something, you're gonna get ice mode in any modern car.

Diff tune is NOT legal for street class autocross, but is legal for CAM-C which you can be competitive in without doing much, honestly street class usually beats CAM-C in raw time despite CAM-C being much more open, sooo yeah.

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Hmmmm...that is most interesting Jacob.
Because of your post, I might reconsider the M6.
44 pounds is an unusually small weight penalty for going automatic compared to many other sports cars; someone else on the forum said that is a 1.5% worse power-to-weight ratio for the A10 vs M6.
I have seen one very seasoned champion autocrosser say that consistency is the key, and for that reason he recommends automatics to minimize the risk of error that will screw up a run.

Have you seen other autocrossers who are similarly enthusiastic about the A10?
You don't feel that it's shifting too often on the autocross course?
If I'm reading you correctly, whatever negatives there may be are far outweighed by the positives of always being in the correct power band wherever you are on the course.

I would really recommend just going M6. Shifts take time, and the 1LE has more than enough power where you will be modulating the throttle most of the time anyway even just staying in 2nd. I'm curious who this "seasoned champion autocrosser" who recommended automatic is. I do think if you're not taking it seriously automatic is probably not bad but you seem like you really do want to take it seriously and have the best of the best. That would be manual.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by IntegraR0064

I have a 2019 and I've never experienced ice mode. Has a lot to do with driving style though, if you're jabbing the brakes while turned or something, especially if you're going off the driving line and finding gravel or something, you're gonna get ice mode in any modern car.

Diff tune is NOT legal for street class autocross, but is legal for CAM-C which you can be competitive in without doing much, honestly street class usually beats CAM-C in raw time despite CAM-C being much more open, sooo yeah.




I would really recommend just going M6. Shifts take time, and the 1LE has more than enough power where you will be modulating the throttle most of the time anyway even just staying in 2nd. I'm curious who this "seasoned champion autocrosser" who recommended automatic is. I do think if you're not taking it seriously automatic is probably not bad but you seem like you really do want to take it seriously and have the best of the best. That would be manual.

I very rarely get ice mode in my 2021 1le. Run 305s all around and hotchkiss front bar and maxed out camber and toe. Only time I get a little is stopping at the finish after a fast straight. But could just be a bit of slide from our low grip surface as it doesn’t really get hard pedal.

I will take it from a friend who is a top NASA, Optima, nmca and scca autocross champion that runs his own top performance shop and runs and tests cars we use. He said no to the automatic.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Monster, I am assuming then that no way no how (to quote the Wizard of Oz) would you ever go back to an M2?
Are you worried about the valve spring issue in the LT1, or has that been solved?
I take it then that the performance and hardware advantages over the M2 far outweigh Camaro disadvantages such as lower quality paint and fit and finish and refinement.


The giants that the Camaro SS 1LE slays in lap times is truly remarkable. Just amazing what that car does on a track for the money, which you highlight nicely in the video.

Correct on both accounts. And M6 for me hands down. Must have that 3rd pedal.

To be honest I'm more worried about the oil pump issue than about the valve issue. A number of members here have suffered an oil pump failure over the years.

Originally Posted by VR Baron

I very rarely get ice mode in my 2021 1le. Run 305s all around and hotchkiss front bar and maxed out camber and toe. Only time I get a little is stopping at the finish after a fast straight. But could just be a bit of slide from our low grip surface as it doesn’t really get hard pedal.

I will take it from a friend who is a top NASA, Optima, nmca and scca autocross champion that runs his own top performance shop and runs and tests cars we use. He said no to the automatic.

Same. The only way I get ice mode is if I make a mistake and get on the brake pedal while the car's suspension is offloaded, or still in the air after a jump. This is easily fixed with a driver mod of waiting till the car touches down and loads up the suspension again. Don't touch the brakes when ever the suspension is very lightly loaded or unloaded. Wait the 0.5s it takes.