[Tom Tom]

Hello, this is my first post.
I’m considering purchasing a Camaro SS 1LE for autocross.
Would this be a better and more competitive choice now that it has been moved to F street for 2022 vs an M2 in B street?

I have trained myself for very long time to left foot brake, having some experience racing karts.
If I do purchase the SS 1LE , am I better off with the 10A trans being able to better left foot brake, accepting the 40 pound weight gain of the 10A or am I still better off with the 6M Tremec in terms of being most competitive in autocross?
Thank you.

[kropscamaro16]

most autocross courses ive been on you barely shift maybe 2nd to 3rd and thats about it so i would go with the m6 but thats up to you

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Hello, this is my first post.
I’m considering purchasing a Camaro SS 1LE for autocross.
Would this be a better and more competitive choice now that it has been moved to F street for 2022 vs an M2 in B street?

I have trained myself for very long time to left foot brake, having some experience racing karts.
If I do purchase the SS 1LE , am I better off with the 10A trans being able to better left foot brake, accepting the 40 pound weight gain of the 10A or am I still better off with the 6M Tremec in terms of being most competitive in autocross?
Thank you.

M6 no question. You shift to 2nd right away course depending and it stays there. Never need third gear. Can’t answer to left foot braking but I feel You don’t really need it. You are on the brakes briefly then on the gas at each corner

[5.M0NSTER]

I switched from N55 M2 to a SS 1LE, and it's been an upgrade in every way except for i-drive.

My focus is HPDA and Track Days, but the car has proven more capable than the M2 in every performance metric, and even the feel.

I was quite proud of the M2 on this day. It did very well. But I can't help but wonder what 'Ring lap time I could have pulled off in the 1LE!

[Tom Tom]

Hello “Monster”. You confirm what I have read from both pro and owner reviews that the M2 has vague steering, and while it has good chassis control has a hard ride that can become skittery and lose traction over bumps; as you point out the feel in the Camaro is better. One professional reviewer considered steering feel and the Camaro to be just a notch below Porsche which is high praise. Another pro reviewer praised the Camaro’s ability to absorb curbing on a race track and in your video was not upset by that. I also noticed that the car was in general surprisingly stable. In videos I watched last night of M2s at autocross, the driver looks like he is getting jostled around quite a bit compared to Camaro drivers. The magnetic shocks are certainly a major improvement. In fact, at a short track, Streets of Willow, with both tests done by motor trend, the Camaro SS 1LE was faster than the BMW M2 CS which has adaptive shocks, a most impressive performance.

Hearing this first hand information from you, really seals the deal for me. On top of that, used BMWs have increased in price well over 20% in the pandemic and the Camaro is new, and I do not have to worry about someone potentially having overreved the engine!

Do you notice the extra roughly 300 pounds of weight of the Camaro very much compared to the M2; it certainly does not seem like it the way you reeled in the M2s at the ’Ring!
Does the decreased visibility outward impair your ability to use all of the track compared to an M2?

Thanks again Monster, very much appreciated. Nice driving on the’ Ring!

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

M6 no question. You shift to 2nd right away course depending and it stays there. Never need third gear. Can’t answer to left foot braking but I feel You don’t really need it. You are on the brakes briefly then on the gas at each corner

thank you, I actually watched about 20 videos of Camaro SS 1LE doing autocross last night, and not a single 1 had an automatic! One of them was the autocross Legend Sam Strano who seems to have changed to a Camaro SS 1LE instead of a Corvette.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

thank you, I actually watched about 20 videos of Camaro SS 1LE doing autocross last night, and not a single 1 had an automatic! One of them was the autocross Legend Sam Strano who seems to have changed to a Camaro SS 1LE instead of a Corvette.

Yep. The A10 seems to be just fine for road courses. But short low speed autocross courses with lots of slow turns just keeps the A10 changing gears all the time from what I have been told. I guess you could manual shift to the best gear, but few seem to have a A10 as you said. I know one guy I race with on occasion with a zl1 auto that’s is fast, but don’t know how he likes the A10. Only things I don’t like with the m6 is hard to launch depending on what Ptm mode you use, and second gear is a bit tall in ratio. Coming off a slow turn onto a straight the rpm is lower and it doesn’t accelerate fast Ifeel. My zle friends have the power advantage in that situation for sure.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

Hello “Monster”. You confirm what I have read from both pro and owner reviews that the M2 has vague steering, and while it has good chassis control has a hard ride that can become skittery and lose traction over bumps; as you point out the feel in the Camaro is better. One professional reviewer considered steering feel and the Camaro to be just a notch below Porsche which is high praise. Another pro reviewer praised the Camaro’s ability to absorb curbing on a race track and in your video was not upset by that. I also noticed that the car was in general surprisingly stable. In videos I watched last night of M2s at autocross, the driver looks like he is getting jostled around quite a bit compared to Camaro drivers. The magnetic shocks are certainly a major improvement. In fact, at a short track, Streets of Willow, with both tests done by motor trend, the Camaro SS 1LE was faster than the BMW M2 CS which has adaptive shocks, a most impressive performance.

Hearing this first hand information from you, really seals the deal for me. On top of that, used BMWs have increased in price well over 20% in the pandemic and the Camaro is new, and I do not have to worry about someone potentially having overreved the engine!

Do you notice the extra roughly 300 pounds of weight of the Camaro very much compared to the M2; it certainly does not seem like it the way you reeled in the M2s at the ’Ring!
Does the decreased visibility outward impair your ability to use all of the track compared to an M2?

Thanks again Monster, very much appreciated. Nice driving on the’ Ring!

Thank you sir. In that video I am also driving an M2, just to clarify.

Steering is a bit better in the 1LE, in PTM race it's weighted just right for my taste, and has good feedback for a EPAS unit.

I do not notice the extra 300 lbs. Car hides it's weight very well. I had the single turbo M2, not the M2C, but there is a lot more power and torque on hand in the Camaro. It also has more mechanical grip than the M2, so you can put that power down really well. One thing the Camaro absolutely nails is the eLDS. As long as you get the car fairly stable and have the front wheels pointed in the right direction, you can just mash the throttle, and it absolutely rocker out of the corners, as long as your tires are warm.

No visibility issues per se, but I had to find an alternate location for my lap timer. That is all, I don't notice it otherwise.

Oh, and other big thing. Parts cost for Camaro is WAAAY cheaper than the BMW. Front calipers for a 1LE are $370 at Rock Auto for example.

Here is a Camaro vide from last summer if you're interested to see the differences in car aptitude. Very bumpy track in most stiff setting for dampers.

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thank you sir. In that video I am also driving an M2, just to clarify.

Steering is a bit better in the 1LE, in PTM race it's weighted just right for my taste, and has good feedback for a EPAS unit.

I do not notice the extra 300 lbs. Car hides it's weight very well. I had the single turbo M2, not the M2C, but there is a lot more power and torque on hand in the Camaro. It also has more mechanical grip than the M2, so you can put that power down really well. One thing the Camaro absolutely nails is the eLDS. As long as you get the car fairly stable and have the front wheels pointed in the right direction, you can just mash the throttle, and it absolutely rocker out of the corners, as long as your tires are warm.

No visibility issues per se, but I had to find an alternate location for my lap timer. That is all, I don't notice it otherwise.

Oh, and other big thing. Parts cost for Camaro is WAAAY cheaper than the BMW. Front calipers for a 1LE are $370 at Rock Auto for example.

Here is a Camaro vide from last summer if you're interested to see the differences in car aptitude. Very bumpy track in most stiff setting for dampers.

Monster, I am assuming then that no way no how (to quote the Wizard of Oz) would you ever go back to an M2?
Are you worried about the valve spring issue in the LT1, or has that been solved?
I take it then that the performance and hardware advantages over the M2 far outweigh Camaro disadvantages such as lower quality paint and fit and finish and refinement.

The giants that the Camaro SS 1LE slays in lap times is truly remarkable. Just amazing what that car does on a track for the money, which you highlight nicely in the video.

[cdrptrks]

Read up on ice mode threads here on the forums before committing to the SS 1LE for autocross. It shines more on a road course than on an autocross course imo but I still autocross mine occasionally. I'm not fast enough at autocross to have activated ice mode during any of my dry runs yet but it seems like it will prevent you from being competitive at a national level from what I have read.

Definitely avoid 2017-2018 SS 1LEs for autocross due to ice mode. I believe some national level autocross drivers were still experiencing ice mode on the newer model years even though they changed the brake calibration to make it harder to activate. I suspect left foot braking would be more likely to activate it but not sure.

I believe I have started activating ice mode on track when doing a quick transition from full throttle to heavy braking on certain bumpy parts of my local track, more often on my 2nd set of wheels with 100 treadwear Goodyear Supercar 3R tires. The pedal becomes too hard for you to physically push it down enough to utilize all of the available tire grip for braking which will cause you to run wide or off of the course entirely.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561775

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...04&postcount=7

There is also an e-diff tune available from GM specifically developed to improve autocross times but it is unrelated to the ice mode issue as far as I know.

[cdrptrks]

Also 2nd gear on the M6 redlines around 78mph on stock tires (which are not competitive for autocross...maybe close to competitive on hot sunny summer days) since it is geared for road courses. 1st gear causes me enough oversteer to be slower than 2nd for autocross so I usually only shift once near the beginning of the course from 1st to 2nd although staying in 1st is more fun and gives more practice with sliding the car around.

[JacobC1983]

I have a ZL1 with the A10 and use the car for at least 10 autocross events and several track days a year. I love the A10 for autocross. I manually shift it to 2nd and 3rd. There is power everywhere in the powerband. It pulls hard out of a corner but you can save yourself sometimes using third depending on the corner. I had a SS 1LE with the 6 speed for two years before the ZL1. I wouldn't change the 10 speed for anything. It fits how I drive, in some ways its actually more fun because there is power on tap at any speed, whereas in the 6 speed I was having to sometimes downshift to first which was too low a gear, but then 2nd wasnt fast enough out of the corner. 10 speed for the win.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Tom Tom

thank you, I actually watched about 20 videos of Camaro SS 1LE doing autocross last night, and not a single 1 had an automatic! One of them was the autocross Legend Sam Strano who seems to have changed to a Camaro SS 1LE instead of a Corvette.

You better check the date on that video. He drives a Mach 1 now and still has his Grand Sport. No more 1LE

[Tom Tom]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Also 2nd gear on the M6 redlines around 78mph on stock tires (which are not competitive for autocross...maybe close to competitive on hot sunny summer days) since it is geared for road courses. 1st gear causes me enough oversteer to be slower than 2nd for autocross so I usually only shift once near the beginning of the course from 1st to 2nd although staying in 1st is more fun and gives more practice with sliding the car around.

Thank you crrptrks... I looked at the thread, and it looks like I should be able to sidestep the ice break mode issue by purchasing a 2022 SS 1LE. Strangely, new seems to be a better value at sticker price then used because of inflated pandemic related used car prices.
Am I correct that on a new SS 1LE, the ice mode issue is largely gone although I suspect under the right conditions it can still occur?
Is the aftermarket E-diff tune legal for street classes in autocross?
Yes, I have seen in many videos that most drivers shift once in the second and leave it there.
I'm glad the ice mode issue has been fixed for the most part since 2020. I have been on the fence about an M2 versus a Camaro and despite the Camaro quality issues (paint, valve springs among others) the mag ride, better steering feel, more power, better crash safety on the street seem to outweigh the M2 virtues of build quality, visibility, and shorter wheelbase.

Also, I'm in California, where now Copper free brakes are mandated.
That means that one gets the ZL1 brakes on the SS 1LE. Am I correct in assuming therefore that there would be less problem with ice mode with ZL1 brakes?