Trading Torque for Horsepower. Intakes and powerbands - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

eLeSthree · 11-12-2021, 06:24 AM

I've got about 1100 miles on the new 427 setup and I'm considering changing intake manifolds. I know the stock intake can support plenty of power. I think a member here has made 1700whp through it. However that doesn't mean all aftermarket intakes don't have their place.

I seem to have a plethora of torque, especially with the new 3.73 gear. I still drive the car on the street occasionally, and traction is still an issue. I have to drive with 12psi in the rear tires to get any traction at all. Only after a burnout can i do 60 rolls at full power.

I'm going to use my last dyno chart for a visual aid. This dyno is from a previous impeller wheel in the same blower. (The new impeller design should make a little more power, but I haven't dyno'd it.) I'm curious if a change of intake only, (not swapping my cam) would shift the powerband up more. Even if it costs me some torque down low. See how the power stops climbing at 6000rpms and starts to fall off? Is this a characteristic of Intake manifold or Camshaft?

A friend of mine swapped his stock intake for a holley hi ram. He went from 750 to 830 and lost 0 torque. I think he gained a few actually. 416 p1sc, e85. I'm thinking there is another 100whp to gain just with an intake swap.

What do you guys think? Anyone have any before and after charts of intake comparisons?

larry_g · 11-12-2021, 07:43 AM

Given your extra displacement and heads, I'd be surprised if that wasn't the intake manifold holding you back, especially at higher rpm.

HOJO · 11-12-2021, 08:11 AM

I'm with Larry. With your cubes and heads I would say the intake is a little under sized and you may notice a nice gain switching it up. I'll be following, as always, and good luck.

dreksnot · 11-12-2021, 08:44 AM

Since I wanted to push more boost than I thought the stock LS3 manifold could take, I first purchased a Fast LSXr but didn't install it as BTR was touting the new cast Equalizer which I figured I'd try. This chart is from the start of a dyno tune several years ago but the session was stopped well short due to finding (actually, the dyno found) a nail in one of my rear tires. One huge difference for me is how hot the Equalizer gets, and it does heat soak my injectors if I shutdown, wait 10-45 minutes. I'm working on my ITT tables that many tuners zero out (that's a no-no). Time to finish a real dyno tune to see what the setup will make.

eLeSthree · 11-12-2021, 10:33 AM

I appreciate the feedback people. Dreksnot, no offense, but I can't really draw a conclusion from the chart, based on all the variables. I'm sure things would look very different had you finished tuning. Besides, our setups are drastically different as far as power curves go.

Does the BTR move the TB position? it's half the price of the LOD...

eLeSthree · 11-12-2021, 11:29 AM

Goals

dreksnot · 11-12-2021, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

I appreciate the feedback people. Dreksnot, no offense, but I can't really draw a conclusion from the chart, based on all the variables. I'm sure things would look very different had you finished tuning. Besides, our setups are drastically different as far as power curves go.

Does the BTR move the TB position? it's half the price of the LOD...

Sorry for the lack of explanation earlier. The BTR Equalizer is supposed to provide more power (torque) high end, like over 6,000rpm, which is where they claim it's better (than others). It is not supposed to lose much low end but I went cathedral ports in my heads to help that cause. My plot was to show that it appears their claims might be true as you can see the power plateau and not really dump like my LS3 setup. Yes, it was a different setup but I'm banking that what BTR said is mostly true.

Yes, the TB is slightly more forward (toward the front of the car) and has a slightly up angle (maybe 15-20deg).

Full_Spectrum · 11-12-2021, 02:19 PM

The stock LS3 manifold is really good on stock cube NA stuff. It works well on boosted stuff up to maybe 750hp.
Beyond that, youre giving up a fair amount against the Holley or similar.

joshnmn · 11-13-2021, 01:03 PM

Just do an elbow on a Victor and run a 105mm tb. Way cheaper than the LOD or Holley.

JMI · 11-13-2021, 05:30 PM

Do you think the blower is big enough to feed the 427 at higher RPM ?
I'm not familiar with your blower setup.

I went with bigger turbo's and the BTR to change the powerband on mind,which it did and I love it.But still can't put big power down on the street till 90+mph on 20" Drag radials, It's better with the 17". Before I peaked around the same as you at 5500-5600RPM, now it pulls hard till 7000rpm(1100RWHP so far with a 6L90) which is perfect for me and still does 900+ rwtq between 4500-5500RPM.
But if I want more,then I'll have to go with bigger turbo's again.

tartagliazl1 · 11-13-2021, 06:48 PM

Have you looked into this?
https://frankensteined.net/shop/low-...take-manifold/
Rpm makes great power with them.

tartagliazl1 · 11-13-2021, 07:11 PM

https://youtu.be/YgftEd96Alc
Different motor but gives you a comparison between intakes and dyno numbers.

eLeSthree · 11-14-2021, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMI

Do you think the blower is big enough to feed the 427 at higher RPM ?
I'm not familiar with your blower setup.

I went with bigger turbo's and the BTR to change the powerband on mind,which it did and I love it.But still can't put big power down on the street till 90+mph on 20" Drag radials, It's better with the 17". Before I peaked around the same as you at 5500-5600RPM, now it pulls hard till 7000rpm(1100RWHP so far with a 6L90) which is perfect for me and still does 900+ rwtq between 4500-5500RPM.
But if I want more,then I'll have to go with bigger turbo's again.

It has made 1280 on a 376, which i realize is not the same motor, but i dont think its maxed out. I can still spin it several thousand rpms faster (have the larger lower and smaller upper pulleys here). Since street traction seems to be lost anyhow, i may do just that. I’d still be willing to make it more efficient with a better intake tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tartagliazl1

Have you looked into this?
https://frankensteined.net/shop/low-...take-manifold/
Rpm makes great power with them.

No price listed, but i think they just raised pricing anyway. If you have to ask, you probably cant afford it…

eLeSthree · 11-14-2021, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshnmn

Just do an elbow on a Victor and run a 105mm tb. Way cheaper than the LOD or Holley.

Will that require cutting the hood?

11-12-2021, 06:24 AM	#1
eLeSthree Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Drivers Seat Posts: 1,904	Trading Torque for Horsepower. Intakes and powerbands I've got about 1100 miles on the new 427 setup and I'm considering changing intake manifolds. I know the stock intake can support plenty of power. I think a member here has made 1700whp through it. However that doesn't mean all aftermarket intakes don't have their place. I seem to have a plethora of torque, especially with the new 3.73 gear. I still drive the car on the street occasionally, and traction is still an issue. I have to drive with 12psi in the rear tires to get any traction at all. Only after a burnout can i do 60 rolls at full power. I'm going to use my last dyno chart for a visual aid. This dyno is from a previous impeller wheel in the same blower. (The new impeller design should make a little more power, but I haven't dyno'd it.) I'm curious if a change of intake only, (not swapping my cam) would shift the powerband up more. Even if it costs me some torque down low. See how the power stops climbing at 6000rpms and starts to fall off? Is this a characteristic of Intake manifold or Camshaft? A friend of mine swapped his stock intake for a holley hi ram. He went from 750 to 830 and lost 0 torque. I think he gained a few actually. 416 p1sc, e85. I'm thinking there is another 100whp to gain just with an intake swap. What do you guys think? Anyone have any before and after charts of intake comparisons? Attached Images __________________ 2011 Camaro SS---SOLD TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes...

11-12-2021, 07:43 AM	#2
larry_g Drives: 2014 1SS/1LE Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 826	Given your extra displacement and heads, I'd be surprised if that wasn't the intake manifold holding you back, especially at higher rpm. __________________ 830 WHP 700 WTQ, Whipple 2.9 @ 13lbs Boost, Flex Fuel Tune by Blevins Tuning, LSA SBE, 3.5 GripTec, ATI LS3 Damper, AFR 260cc Mongoose, ARP Studs, Yella Terra Ultralites, Johnson 2110R, BTR PDS Stage 3, Melling 10355, Improved Racing Baffle, ID1050X, DSX Triple Fuel Pump, RotoFab CAI, NW 103mm TB, Stainless Works 1-7/8" LTH to 3" Speed Eng w/ X-pipe to NPP, Powermaster 9509 XS, Detroit Speed Motor Mounts, MGW, Monster LT1-S, ZL1 Calipers, DBA Rotors & Pads, Bilstein B6 Struts & Shocks, BMR 1.25" Drop Springs & Adj Rear Bar, Pegasus Solid Bushings, Z/28 Wheels, other misc parts.

11-12-2021, 08:44 AM	#4
dreksnot Served USN - Atomic Chimp Drives: 13 Camaro LSX434 TT M6, 21 ZLE A10 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,603 View My Garage	Since I wanted to push more boost than I thought the stock LS3 manifold could take, I first purchased a Fast LSXr but didn't install it as BTR was touting the new cast Equalizer which I figured I'd try. This chart is from the start of a dyno tune several years ago but the session was stopped well short due to finding (actually, the dyno found) a nail in one of my rear tires. One huge difference for me is how hot the Equalizer gets, and it does heat soak my injectors if I shutdown, wait 10-45 minutes. I'm working on my ITT tables that many tuners zero out (that's a no-no). Time to finish a real dyno tune to see what the setup will make. Attached Images __________________ In excess of 1,000WHP LSX434 \| AGP 65/65 TT \| BTR Equalizer Intake \| Trickflow 245cc cathedral \| BTR custom cam \| Cortex EBC \| n2mb WOT \| ID-1700x \| Brisk GR12S \| RPM Lv 7 TR6060 \| AGP's Triple 525LPH Fore Fuel \| Monster LT1-S Triple \| 4.11 DSS Proform 9", CF driveshaft, 1400hp axles \| Hurst Line Lock \| MGW Retro Short Throw w/old skool Hurst T-handle \| ADM solid subframe mounts \| Prothane Motor Mounts \| Revshift Poly Trans insert \| Moreno camber/caster plates

11-12-2021, 10:33 AM	#5
eLeSthree Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Drivers Seat Posts: 1,904	I appreciate the feedback people. Dreksnot, no offense, but I can't really draw a conclusion from the chart, based on all the variables. I'm sure things would look very different had you finished tuning. Besides, our setups are drastically different as far as power curves go. Does the BTR move the TB position? it's half the price of the LOD... __________________ 2011 Camaro SS---SOLD TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes...

11-12-2021, 11:29 AM	#6
eLeSthree Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Drivers Seat Posts: 1,904	Goals Attached Images __________________ 2011 Camaro SS---SOLD TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes...

11-12-2021, 08:11 AM	#3
HOJO Drives: 2014 Camaro SS/RS 1LE 1967 Camaro Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 873	I'm with Larry. With your cubes and heads I would say the intake is a little under sized and you may notice a nice gain switching it up. I'll be following, as always, and good luck.

11-12-2021, 02:19 PM	#8
Full_Spectrum Drives: 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 55	The stock LS3 manifold is really good on stock cube NA stuff. It works well on boosted stuff up to maybe 750hp. Beyond that, youre giving up a fair amount against the Holley or similar.

11-13-2021, 01:03 PM	#9
joshnmn 2&THEHIT Drives: 5th Gen Camaro; 5th Gen Ram 3500 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 1,011 View My Garage	Just do an elbow on a Victor and run a 105mm tb. Way cheaper than the LOD or Holley.

11-13-2021, 05:30 PM	#10
JMI Drives: Red Jewel Camaro SS Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: East Coast Posts: 392	Do you think the blower is big enough to feed the 427 at higher RPM ? I'm not familiar with your blower setup. I went with bigger turbo's and the BTR to change the powerband on mind,which it did and I love it.But still can't put big power down on the street till 90+mph on 20" Drag radials, It's better with the 17". Before I peaked around the same as you at 5500-5600RPM, now it pulls hard till 7000rpm(1100RWHP so far with a 6L90) which is perfect for me and still does 900+ rwtq between 4500-5500RPM. But if I want more,then I'll have to go with bigger turbo's again. __________________ BTR LSX388,AGP Twin Turbo.6L90,GM 9.9" Diff.Fore Innovations Level 4 fuel system.Great fuel economy !!!! 1xxx RWHP

11-13-2021, 06:48 PM	#11
tartagliazl1 Drives: 2013 zl1 vert Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Rochester, New york Posts: 948	Have you looked into this? https://frankensteined.net/shop/low-...take-manifold/ Rpm makes great power with them. __________________ 22% lower/ 2.5 upper/ 2” headers/ cat delete/ x-pipe/ 2 gallon x tank/ 100-3 pump/ fic 850/ dsx aux kit/ 103mm throttle body/ RPM 5” intake/ meth kit/ prometh lid injection/FI interchiller/ 160* stat/ ngk-7/ msd wires/ elite catch can/ tsp cam/ Che trunnions/ ported supercharger/ 1/2” lid spacer/ brick mod/BMR toe and trailing arms/ 751hp 757 tq SAE @17.3lb on a loaded dyno.

11-13-2021, 07:11 PM	#12
tartagliazl1 Drives: 2013 zl1 vert Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Rochester, New york Posts: 948	https://youtu.be/YgftEd96Alc Different motor but gives you a comparison between intakes and dyno numbers. __________________ 22% lower/ 2.5 upper/ 2” headers/ cat delete/ x-pipe/ 2 gallon x tank/ 100-3 pump/ fic 850/ dsx aux kit/ 103mm throttle body/ RPM 5” intake/ meth kit/ prometh lid injection/FI interchiller/ 160* stat/ ngk-7/ msd wires/ elite catch can/ tsp cam/ Che trunnions/ ported supercharger/ 1/2” lid spacer/ brick mod/BMR toe and trailing arms/ 751hp 757 tq SAE @17.3lb on a loaded dyno.