[Riylo]

I'm not finding anything that makes it clear to me that it isn't illegal to do so. However, that doesn't mean it isn't.

I'm not going to leave holes there. I'm getting a full body wrap and I wonder if I can just unplug them, stick something in there to make a flush fit, and wrap right over it. Or something smarter that the wrap guy might know about.

Most cars I pass on the road and both other cars we have do not have side markers at all, so I don't believe there's some legal requirement that this car needs to. But, if there's some deeply hidden federal requirement that this sort of alteration not be performed if they came from the factory with them, I should probably know. And I can't seem to find out either way, only pages detailing what color they need to be.

Does anyone know? I can speculate all day long on my own; looking for some knowledge or a useful link that I haven't been able to find myself, please.

I searched this forum first; didn't see a title that jumped out at me in the two pages.

[k818mn1]

In the United States, amber front and red rear side marker lamps and retroreflectors are required, according to Wikipedia.

[chaospiece]

They're required, at a certain level off the ground and the ends of the car.
But I'm in the same boat wanting to delete my front ones.
I guess you could just wrap them over. Or in the same color wrap and leave them available to put back if you somehow get a ticket. I doubt they check for this kind of thing really.

[Mark114]

If your region requires a safety check to renew plates then they will flag it. You may find that clear, dark, or body-color side markers are a better alternative.

[chozn4service]

Standard No. 108 - Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment - Passenger Cars, Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Buses, Trailers, (except pole trailers and trailer converter dollies), and Motorcycles (Effective 1-1-68 for vehicles 2,032 mrn (80 or more inches) in width and effective 1-1-69 for all other vehicles). This standard specifies requirements for original and replacement lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment. Its purpose is to reduce traffic crashes and deaths and injuries resulting from traffic crashes, by providing adequate illumination of the roadway, and by enhancing the conspicuity of motor vehicles on the public roads so that their presence is perceived and their signals understood, both in daylight and in darkness, or other conditions of reduced visibility.

Confused yet? Basically, what this says regarding side marker lights is that effective on all vehicles made on January 1, 1968 or later, amber side marker lamps or reflectors that can be seen in profile are required to be included near the front of the vehicle, and red side marker lamps or reflectors that can be seen in profile are required to be included near the rear of the vehicle.

Initially, the regulation for 1968-1969 required lights or reflectors, which is why some cars in 1968 had amber lights in front and red reflectors in the rear (1968 Ford Motor Company cars, for example). Chrysler vehicles used lights in 1968 and reflectors (on most models) for 1969. This regulation was later amended to require lights and reflectors on all vehicles made on January 1, 1970 or later, which is why most lines had changes to their side marker lights for the 1970 model year.

The regulation required that the side-facing lights and/or reflectors make the vehicle's presence, position, and direction of travel clearly visible to other drivers approaching the vehicle from the side, or at any angle where the headlamps or tail lamps of the vehicle being overtaken cannot be viewed. In other words, other drivers should be able to see your car in darkness regardless of the direction from which they are approaching, and from the color of the light or reflector, be able to tell at a glance which direction your vehicle is facing or moving.

The amended regulation for January 1, 1970 also included the requirement that the parking lamps remain lit during headlamp operation, and that side marker lamps be illuminated whenever the vehicle's parking and tail lamps are on. The parking light revision to the regulation was to make vehicles with a non-functioning headlamp more noticeable to other drivers, and lessened the chance that it might be mistaken for a motorcycle by oncoming traffic.

In 1970-1971, most Ford Motor Company vehicles were equipped with flashing side marker lights that corresponded with the turn signals flashing in the direction of a turn. This was eliminated for the most part for 1972, although many General Motors cars utilize a flashing front (amber) marker light to correspond with turn signals to this day.

These side marker lamps may not be as sophisticated as today's HID or Xenon lights, but they are pretty good when you consider the automotive lighting technology that was available at the time.

[cellsafemode]

You'll fail safety inspections (in any states that actually have them) for even having interior door mounted lights / reflectors broken/disabled/removed if they came with them from the factory. Even though there is no federal mandate to have such things.

in short - lights and reflectors anywhere on your car are considered safety devices and manipulating them will run you afoul of inspections if you dont bribe your way thru or live in a state that doesn't have them.

[chozn4service]

So true. I have the ghosted side markers and as a LEO, I really don’t want them. I’d prefer to have OE reflectors with the LED strip inside but I can’t find anyone who sells them like this. I personally prefer reflectors.


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[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by chozn4service

So true. I have the ghosted side markers and as a LEO, I really don’t want them. I’d prefer to have OE reflectors with the LED strip inside but I can’t find anyone who sells them like this. I personally prefer reflectors.

Diode Dynamics sells an amber/red kit that looks very similar to the OEM markers, except with LED's inside. Actually, their smoked and clear side markers are also reflective, just not in amber and red.
https://www.diodedynamics.com/led-si...et-camaro.html

[Riylo]

I'd seen the ghosted markers but was hoping to avoid needing to pay for that as well. I have a lot of little things to do already when it comes to completing the look with the wrap.

I'm attaching a good number of examples of cars from all over the place and going back 10 years just to show that it seems most cars made, even today from the same maker, are apparently all breaking the law as posted by chozn. If they don't need them (and it's a verifiable fact that they're all over 80") then why do we?







It's that 'feeling' that it's probably wrong to remove something that was already there, but I'm just hoping for something written a la his post that says this. Calling the DMV is... Well, it's a way to kill an afternoon and probably still not get someone knowledgeable. Maybe I should just talk to a cop.

I do appreciate the replies. Giving me more pause.

EDIT: Ya know... Now that I look at those, maybe it's because all those appear to have both headlights and taillights that wrap around to the side, so we need the markers to make up for ours not. But, again, that's me speculating, not actually knowing.

[Gutling]

Those cars you posted though the sidemarkers in the headlight look visible from the side. The camaro they are not, I think that is why there are seperate ones.

[Riylo]

I think I beatcha with the edit, but we're on the same page - looks that way. Still, I'll keep looking of board for an answer and report back what I get.

[Riylo]

Talked with a traffic cop yesterday while we were both filling up at the gas station. Keep in mind that it's his job to know my state's laws, not yours.

In short, markers are not required.

He said it's an auto maker thing to do side markers for visibility. He acknowledges that some cars accomplish this by wrapping the headlight around. He said there's probably 5 people in the state that know every little tiny bit of traffic law. He said he wouldn't ever notice or pull someone over for not having markers.

[Camaro_QC]

Agree with you. This cop won't pull anyone for that.

But as per the regulations, you need them.

As per the law, you should not tint your headlights or taillights, some still do it and don't get pulled. Same goes for Windows tint, exhaust, etc.

Just know that if you go against the law, you might have to answer why you did it and may have to fix it. Maybe you will never have to do it, but it is a possibility.

[chozn4service]

I’ve been with the Indiana State Police for 40yrs and I’ve never written a ticket for it, but it is a viable stopping charge. If manufactured with it, it has to have them. Some do incorporate the front and rear side marker with wrapped lights and the back will have separate reflectors. I had a co-worker wanting to tag me for my ghosted side markers, not just because he’s an a$$ hole but because they don’t reflect. I plan to order the DD side markers which are like OE soon to replace my current ghosted BVM markers and hope I can recoup some of my coin back.


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