ZLE Oil Pump/Cooler Replacement - Page 3

JonDaddy82 · 10-21-2019, 06:34 PM

Mine’s an 18 built 11/17, so I have NO idea if I have an old or updated pump.

jjgi5150 · 10-22-2019, 04:06 AM

I, like many others here, am worried about this oil pump issue. My 11/22/17 build date could be within the time frame suspected. I'm good so far with 6.5k miles...and l love the car.

But it seems the car build date shouldn't be the determining factor of possible oil pump failure. It should be the build date of the engine. That date could be weeks or maybe more apart from the cars build date.

Perhaps someone with appropriate tech skills could start a poll about the engine build dates so there might be an accurate rating of how much we should worry. It seems like there are no postings of any EXACT oil pump part numbers that define this issue.

JJ

Artryan · 10-22-2019, 06:05 AM

I can't figure out why this is such a detrimental issue, but there is no info released from GM about the pumps, any updates, or date ranges of the flawed pumps.

It really lends itself to a class action lawsuit as well as being a HUGE risk to owning one of these cars outside of the warranty. Who wants to own a car that could possibly need a $25,000 repair due to a commonly know faulty part even though it is still essentially a new car?

If the situation stays status quo with respect to GM's involvement when my warranty comes close to expiring, I'll be getting rid of the car no matter how much I like it. I'm not going to pay what I did for the car, and fear that it could need an engine replacement at any time on my dime. For me, spending a few grand of my own money to fix a design flaw on a high caliber car is not an option.

1993kramer · 10-22-2019, 06:07 AM

I asked Vengence racing on one of their LT4 posts about oil pump problems and they stated they've never experienced an oil pump failure on cars they've done. I still think this issue while serious is quite overblown as far as numbers effected.

Scottyz · 10-22-2019, 07:04 AM

I wonder if the CTSVs are having the same problem with that same build date?
Pretty sure the engines come from the same assembly plant.
Therefore, you would think if there was a timeframe of bad pumps it should also affect those Caddy’s.

jjgi5150 · 10-22-2019, 11:32 AM

Maybe somebody with some GM connections can look into this a bit more. It is, and should be, a concern for all the owners of these cars who are not modifying their engines. As Artryan stated above, these are expensive repairs if it happens, and most people cannot afford the cost and some not the downtime that would be associated with a blown engine.

As I said above, the build date of the car may have not too much impact on tracking the good vs. bad pumps. I doubt that the very day your car was "built" was the same day that your engine was manufactured. The engine may have been built days to weeks to months ahead of time and stored at the final assembly plant pending insertion to the car. The tracking on this issue needs to be at the engine manufacturing location to confirm dates. I would bet that if these pumps are in fact made by Melling, Melling has been told by GM to "Stay out of it."

I don't know for sure if they note such things at the engine factory, but they probably do. They even had a special tag on the LS7 in my '15 Z/28 that denoted the builder of that particular engine. I know they didn't do that for the ZL1's, but I would bet there is a 'bar code' or an internal memo somewhere that would tell us what's up.

This issue, to me, seems to be worse than the well documented ECU software issues that caused the cars to have off-idle stalling problems. Those are dangerous, for sure, but so could be a blown engine at speed on the freeway, or coming down a mountain road, or ?????

I don't believe GM wants to look into this matter at all. It could be too expensive for them to have to fix.

Dixie ZL1 · 10-22-2019, 03:16 PM

You guys are blowing this out of proportion. First of all the pumps don’t just grenade, they fail over a short period of time with a symptom of low idle pressure. My car dropped to 20psi hot idle a couple hundred miles before it failed. Didn’t know what was happening at the time, but it’s well known now and everyone should be watching for it.

When the pump does fail the car gives you unmistakable direction to turn the car off immediately. If your pump fails simply stop the car and call a tow truck.

I’m my case the dealer replaced it under warranty, checked two rod bearings for damage and got the car back on the road with the updated pump design. GM also extended my drivetrain warranty for good will. SPEEEDiagnostix analyzes the oil after my last track day and it was perfect.

If your car is modded and your worried about the warranty, the pump costs less than $200 and will take you a weekend to replace on your own. Cost at the dealer is ~$2300. If your fortunate to have a good dealer they recognize there’s no connection between the pump failure and modifications and will cover it regardless.

IMHO - this affects such a small percentage of cars built we shouldn’t let it impact enjoying one of the most fun cars available. What would you replace it with? A GT350R with oil consumption and overheating issues?

Artryan · 10-22-2019, 07:00 PM

From my POV, the fact that GM took notice enough to update the pump is pretty telling that it isn't just a random problem. I've read enough to know that whether or not your engine is trashed doesn't depend on how long you drive it with a failing pump. Many people have had their car just shut down with no warning only to find out the engine is toast.

GM is WELL aware of this issue and they're just trying to eek past the warranty period for the cars that are likely to be affected.

The problem is that most owners are not aware of the issue and don't frequent forums. IMHO, there will be some major drama when people find out they need to replace an engine on a car with 5K miles that is out of warranty thanks to a well known issue that GM didn't address.

The one bright spot is that based on what I've read here, bad pumps don't make it very far off the showroom floor. I didn't buy my car to rack up miles, but I find myself wanting to put miles on it to test the pump while under warranty.

jjgi5150 · 10-22-2019, 09:02 PM

Dixie ZL1

I'm interested in the part number for the "updated" oil pump you referenced above. Do you have a reference for this info? If there is an updated pump...l'd like to push my dealer to confirm which pump l have and push for a pre-emptive change.

If there is a new pump, it's for a reason. GM SHOULD eat this cost.

Dixie ZL1 · 10-22-2019, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjgi5150

Dixie ZL1

I'm interested in the part number for the "updated" oil pump you referenced above. Do you have a reference for this info? If there is an updated pump...l'd like to push my dealer to confirm which pump l have and push for a pre-emptive change.

If there is a new pump, it's for a reason. GM SHOULD eat this cost.

All the info you’re looking for is in the post below. The oil pump gives plenty of warning if you pay attention. The engines can run at idle for some time after the pump fails without bearing damage.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=532479

GA SS · 11-04-2019, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen12ZL1

my 2017 A10 oil pump just failed today...damn!

Stephen 12ZL1,
How are you doing with your oil pump failure? Has a cause been determined?

Stephen12ZL1 · 11-04-2019, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA SS

Stephen 12ZL1,
How are you doing with your oil pump failure? Has a cause been determined?

They have the parts and should have it finished tomorrow or Wednesday. They said the strike caused a delay in parts availability. They had it over two weeks. I have four track days this week. Hopefully it will be finished so it doesn't ruin my schedule

SteveV · 11-04-2019, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artryan

... It really lends itself to a class action lawsuit as well as being a HUGE risk to owning one of these cars outside of the warranty.

The only ones who win in a class action lawsuit, are the originating attorney(s).

The average Joe like us might get between 5 and 15 dollars.

Isn't worth it...

10-21-2019, 06:34 PM	#29
JonDaddy82 Drives: 2018 ZL1 Coupe NFG M6 Join Date: May 2017 Location: Nolensville, TN Posts: 618	Mine’s an 18 built 11/17, so I have NO idea if I have an old or updated pump. __________________ 1989 Forumla 350 WS6 <- High School 2000 Trans Am Firehawk <- After High School 2017 Colorado Z71 <- Daily 2018 ZL1 M6 <- Not Daily

10-22-2019, 04:06 AM	#30
jjgi5150 Drives: 2022 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: AZ Posts: 260	Seems like we might be off-sync here.... I, like many others here, am worried about this oil pump issue. My 11/22/17 build date could be within the time frame suspected. I'm good so far with 6.5k miles...and l love the car. But it seems the car build date shouldn't be the determining factor of possible oil pump failure. It should be the build date of the engine. That date could be weeks or maybe more apart from the cars build date. Perhaps someone with appropriate tech skills could start a poll about the engine build dates so there might be an accurate rating of how much we should worry. It seems like there are no postings of any EXACT oil pump part numbers that define this issue. JJ __________________ 2018 ZL1 1LE, NGM, Nav, PDR, born 11/22/17 SOLD 2022 ZLE, MH3, WCT, Nav, PDR, born 10/21-5/22!!! 2021 F-250 FX4 2023 Hyundai SF Calligraphy

10-22-2019, 11:32 AM	#34
jjgi5150 Drives: 2022 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: AZ Posts: 260	Maybe somebody with some GM connections can look into this a bit more. It is, and should be, a concern for all the owners of these cars who are not modifying their engines. As Artryan stated above, these are expensive repairs if it happens, and most people cannot afford the cost and some not the downtime that would be associated with a blown engine. As I said above, the build date of the car may have not too much impact on tracking the good vs. bad pumps. I doubt that the very day your car was "built" was the same day that your engine was manufactured. The engine may have been built days to weeks to months ahead of time and stored at the final assembly plant pending insertion to the car. The tracking on this issue needs to be at the engine manufacturing location to confirm dates. I would bet that if these pumps are in fact made by Melling, Melling has been told by GM to "Stay out of it." I don't know for sure if they note such things at the engine factory, but they probably do. They even had a special tag on the LS7 in my '15 Z/28 that denoted the builder of that particular engine. I know they didn't do that for the ZL1's, but I would bet there is a 'bar code' or an internal memo somewhere that would tell us what's up. This issue, to me, seems to be worse than the well documented ECU software issues that caused the cars to have off-idle stalling problems. Those are dangerous, for sure, but so could be a blown engine at speed on the freeway, or coming down a mountain road, or ????? I don't believe GM wants to look into this matter at all. It could be too expensive for them to have to fix. __________________ 2018 ZL1 1LE, NGM, Nav, PDR, born 11/22/17 SOLD 2022 ZLE, MH3, WCT, Nav, PDR, born 10/21-5/22!!! 2021 F-250 FX4 2023 Hyundai SF Calligraphy

10-22-2019, 09:02 PM	#37
jjgi5150 Drives: 2022 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: AZ Posts: 260	Dixie ZL1 I'm interested in the part number for the "updated" oil pump you referenced above. Do you have a reference for this info? If there is an updated pump...l'd like to push my dealer to confirm which pump l have and push for a pre-emptive change. If there is a new pump, it's for a reason. GM SHOULD eat this cost. __________________ 2018 ZL1 1LE, NGM, Nav, PDR, born 11/22/17 SOLD 2022 ZLE, MH3, WCT, Nav, PDR, born 10/21-5/22!!! 2021 F-250 FX4 2023 Hyundai SF Calligraphy

10-22-2019, 06:05 AM	#31
Artryan Drives: 2018 ZL1 , 2020 GMC AT4 Carbon Pro Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 132	I can't figure out why this is such a detrimental issue, but there is no info released from GM about the pumps, any updates, or date ranges of the flawed pumps. It really lends itself to a class action lawsuit as well as being a HUGE risk to owning one of these cars outside of the warranty. Who wants to own a car that could possibly need a $25,000 repair due to a commonly know faulty part even though it is still essentially a new car? If the situation stays status quo with respect to GM's involvement when my warranty comes close to expiring, I'll be getting rid of the car no matter how much I like it. I'm not going to pay what I did for the car, and fear that it could need an engine replacement at any time on my dime. For me, spending a few grand of my own money to fix a design flaw on a high caliber car is not an option.

10-22-2019, 06:07 AM	#32
1993kramer New to GM Drives: 17 ZL1 91 LX 5.0 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Minnesota Posts: 61	I asked Vengence racing on one of their LT4 posts about oil pump problems and they stated they've never experienced an oil pump failure on cars they've done. I still think this issue while serious is quite overblown as far as numbers effected.

10-22-2019, 07:04 AM	#33
Scottyz 2019 ZL1 1LE MY GOON Drives: 1980 Z28 Big Red. Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Stoney Creek Posts: 2,061	I wonder if the CTSVs are having the same problem with that same build date? Pretty sure the engines come from the same assembly plant. Therefore, you would think if there was a timeframe of bad pumps it should also affect those Caddy’s.

10-22-2019, 03:16 PM	#35
Dixie ZL1 NOXQCES ZL1 Drives: 2017 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 307	You guys are blowing this out of proportion. First of all the pumps don’t just grenade, they fail over a short period of time with a symptom of low idle pressure. My car dropped to 20psi hot idle a couple hundred miles before it failed. Didn’t know what was happening at the time, but it’s well known now and everyone should be watching for it. When the pump does fail the car gives you unmistakable direction to turn the car off immediately. If your pump fails simply stop the car and call a tow truck. I’m my case the dealer replaced it under warranty, checked two rod bearings for damage and got the car back on the road with the updated pump design. GM also extended my drivetrain warranty for good will. SPEEEDiagnostix analyzes the oil after my last track day and it was perfect. If your car is modded and your worried about the warranty, the pump costs less than $200 and will take you a weekend to replace on your own. Cost at the dealer is ~$2300. If your fortunate to have a good dealer they recognize there’s no connection between the pump failure and modifications and will cover it regardless. IMHO - this affects such a small percentage of cars built we shouldn’t let it impact enjoying one of the most fun cars available. What would you replace it with? A GT350R with oil consumption and overheating issues?

10-22-2019, 07:00 PM	#36
Artryan Drives: 2018 ZL1 , 2020 GMC AT4 Carbon Pro Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 132	From my POV, the fact that GM took notice enough to update the pump is pretty telling that it isn't just a random problem. I've read enough to know that whether or not your engine is trashed doesn't depend on how long you drive it with a failing pump. Many people have had their car just shut down with no warning only to find out the engine is toast. GM is WELL aware of this issue and they're just trying to eek past the warranty period for the cars that are likely to be affected. The problem is that most owners are not aware of the issue and don't frequent forums. IMHO, there will be some major drama when people find out they need to replace an engine on a car with 5K miles that is out of warranty thanks to a well known issue that GM didn't address. The one bright spot is that based on what I've read here, bad pumps don't make it very far off the showroom floor. I didn't buy my car to rack up miles, but I find myself wanting to put miles on it to test the pump while under warranty.

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