[JoeCamaro444]

They can stick EV’s, sideways, right up their boring backsides, same as the cars are.

[Palutz]

If I want an EV right now I’ll just put my ZLE in Snow/Ice mode and drive on noisy pavement. The experience is boring and no amount of 0-60 in 3 seconds will ever make me pick it over the Track mode with all the glorious bells and whistles. Life isn’t just about getting from point A to point B … it’s how you get there. To each their own I guess.

[ZED SLED]

about 20 years from now

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JoeCamaro444

They can stick EV’s, sideways, right up their boring backsides, same as the cars are.

Guessing you haven’t even seen an eTron GT. Boring? Not! And if you like Porsche styling the Taycan is not too bad.

The reason everyone spays boring is 1) all Teslas look the same and 2) almost all are SUVs.

But seriously you think the GMC Hummer is boring? Cartoonish yes, but not boring.

[cooldawg]

Buttigieg nevertheless argued that speed is necessary for a robust electric vehicle policy. “We’ve got to make sure that this happens quickly enough to help us beat climate change,”

Mary B. Agrees, and that’s all that matters. Dealers aren’t even returning calls on ZL1 stock units, and GM spent crap ton of $$ pushing EV blazer over the weekend. GM let Camaro wither on the vine, and you know it. The bureaucrats aren’t helping by shoveling more propaganda.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Guessing you haven’t even seen an eTron GT. Boring? Not! And if you like Porsche styling the Taycan is not too bad.

The reason everyone spays boring is 1) all Teslas look the same and 2) almost all are SUVs.

But seriously you think the GMC Hummer is boring? Cartoonish yes, but not boring.

Many folks who say they despise EVs are going to be shocked when they actually drive a performance EV for the first time.

Bear in mind, relatively speaking, there is only a small percentage of enthusiasts like us that appreciate the noise and vibration of a V8 and enjoy the engagement of rowing our own gears. Let's face it, there is a small percentage of ICE based vehicles that actually sound great. Exotics, V8s with performance exhaust, possibly an inline 4 cylinder with the right exhaust. If your choice is between the sound of a Hyundai Sonata or an EV, I think most will pick the lack of sound and low NVH from an EV.

The majority of folks don't know it yet but most are really going to like a single speed transmission that doesn't need to shift at all. It just pulls and pulls with no interruption. We discuss how fast an A10 or DCT shift but it there is no comparison. The power is instant all the time, it is quite shocking how quick even the slow EVs feel compared to ICE. For reference my Tesla Model 3 SR+ (the slow one) feels as quick as my ZL1 A10 did. Sure the ZL1 is faster, but it doesn't feel faster in the 0-60mph/20-50mph range where you spend the most time driving.

There is no need for launch control, no need for E-Diffs to put the power down. Consider the difference of having an EV motor on each wheel and how that changes how a performance car handles. The batteries a heavy but mounted down low so the handling is great. EV Traction control is on another level since you have direct control of the drive unit vs having to wait on the mechanical systems used currently. This enables you to get much more grip out of the tires.

These newer software based control systems in EVs are more customizable, imagine being able to get OTA software updates to your Track Mode. For example, what if GM engineers hit the track with Randy Pobst and he helps provide feedback on the track tuning. Then magically, the "Randy Pobst - Willow Springs" tune is available for download to your vehicle. You can do stuff like this with EVs.

I think Dodge is taking it too far with trying to make an EV feel more ICE-like. Just let the high pitch whine of the electric motors deliver the natural sound they make. Kind of sound like supercharger whine anyway, much better than artificial noise Dodge is trying to create.

[Gen6cyl]

I agree, I would want my ev to be a true driver's car not an ev trying to be a ic car.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Gen6cyl

I agree, I would want my ev to be a true driver's car not an ev trying to be a ic car.

I really wish the market favored such a vehicle. Everyone wants higher seated vehicles to lord over the roads with room for 15 people with the ability to tow 10,000lbs and go off road and drive 600 miles before filling back up.

Nobody is buying low to the ground driving enthusiast centric small coupes except rich people in the US.

And with so many people crowding the roads, less and less people actually enjoy driving so more and more people just want to be chauffeured rather than really drive and the manufacturers know this.

The future of driving enthusiasts is going to be much more niche and much more diy unless you're rich. You're likely not going to be happy with off-the-shelf options. I'm holding my breath on retro-fitting existing vehicles taking off as a cottage industry. I'd rather pay 30k to convert my existing camaro than pay $30k for a CUV that is actually only available in $40k trims with every driver assist tech option at any dealers.

In many ways, that potential future doesn't sound too bad... Driving something you can't just buy that way is kinda the heart of being a gear head.

[Rayvan]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

A what price though?

Assume it does 0-60 in under 4 sec. 1/4 mile in mid 11s. Assume it gets about 275 miles of range per charge. It has mag ride, some cool styled wheels, fancy brakes that you won't use much due to regen braking, some decent tech, sporty seats and large use of displays as seen on all the new GM products.

$50k-$60k?

I don't care how fast it is. If someone offered to sell a gasoline-powered car that had a filler tube the size of an IV tube, I'd laugh in their face.

Wake me up when a EV wins an endurance race against an IC car.

[L99BEN]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

The majority of folks don't know it yet but most are really going to like a single speed transmission that doesn't need to shift at all. It just pulls and pulls with no interruption. We discuss how fast an A10 or DCT shift but it there is no comparison. The power is instant all the time, it is quite shocking how quick even the slow EVs feel compared to ICE. For reference my Tesla Model 3 SR+ (the slow one) feels as quick as my ZL1 A10 did. Sure the ZL1 is faster, but it doesn't feel faster in the 0-60mph/20-50mph range where you spend the most time driving.

The Tesla S Plaid would blow your mind if you're impressed with the Model 3...
The Plaid is always in-gear, in the powerband and set to kill from any speed. The acceleration never gets old and the performance is undeniable no matter the conditions, DA, fuel quality, enjoyed whenever while never having to worry about breaking anything.

Ultimate daily driver, practical, comfortable family car for the speed junky enthusiast in me. Would absolutely buy again if I could go back in time!

Maybe it's because I am "middle-aged" but at this point I prefer to enjoy the loud, flashy, performance combustion toys on the weekend!



I agree the fake Dodge EV noise is super cheesy. Hope it can be turned on/off!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

These newer software based control systems in EVs are more customizable, imagine being able to get OTA software updates to your Track Mode. For example, what if GM engineers hit the track with Randy Pobst and he helps provide feedback on the track tuning. Then magically, the "Randy Pobst - Willow Springs" tune is available for download to your vehicle. You can do stuff like this with EVs.

You could do the exact same thing with ICE all day long, but no manufacturer has done so. Instead, they kept using decades old tech, hardware and software for as long as they could, until Tesla crapped on their plates and now they're scrambling for chips that nobody wants to manufacture anymore at a profit of $0.01 per unit. Them "reinventing the market" just means they want to abandon the old playfield, ditch their products and attempt to play the same game in the perceived upwardly mobile EV market.

For this reason, with the exception of Tesla pioneering and guinea pigging the market, such possibilities in software are unlikely to translate into usable functionality under the current climate (pun intended).

The flip side is equally true and is more likely unfortunately—instead of the (optional) "Randy Pobst - Willow Springs" tune you crave, you'll get a mandatory speed and acceleration limiter called something like "gm 'everybody in' advanced velocity management calibration update for maximum safety, climate preservation and equity" one morning, say, as a result of a street racing crash that incurs a 'massive uproar' caused by 'flagrant disregard of the law' by 'subversive elements in our society'. Modern technology makes it that much easier to brute force everyone into submission than to weed out the chaff.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

The flip side is equally true and is more likely unfortunately—instead of the (optional) "Randy Pobst - Willow Springs" tune you crave, you'll get a mandatory speed and acceleration limiter called something like "gm 'everybody in' advanced velocity management calibration update for maximum safety, climate preservation and equity" one morning, say, as a result of a street racing crash that incurs a 'massive uproar' caused by 'flagrant disregard of the law' by 'subversive elements in our society'. Modern technology makes it that much easier to brute force everyone into submission than to weed out the chaff.

Nobody is interested in weeding out the chaff because if you look objectively at doing that, you make too many people a criminal or eliminate options from too many people with no good alternative. Driving tests dont need high tech and they could easily have been improved as vehicle performance has improved to weed out poor drivers who can't handle driving vehicles that are literally multiple times faster than the cars from decades past when driving tests were created.

It's less about flagrant disregard of the law leading to deaths on the road, and just flagrant incompetence and poor skill leading to deaths on the road. And the only palatable option we have is making the tools they're using adapt to their behaviors, since fixing their behaviors is not an effective strategy (or not one anyone cares to address).

However, right now we're actually seeing ev's going in the opposite direction. We're seeing insane acceleration performance being basically mandated by the market and delivered by the manufacturers ....we're seeing massive weight by large vehicles or vehicles with large performance demands. This will not improve safety at all. And we'll almost certainly see a swing in the direction of limiters ...because the general public needs those limiters in place. 100%.

edit: I think if the general public were given limiters of speed at 85mph and limiters of acceleration that reduce your 0-60 min time to 6seconds ... you'll still be plenty fast so that everything isn't boring but not beyond the performance handling ability of most drivers (though i think that acceleration limiter should also be tied to the weight of the vehicle with heavier vehicles having seconds added to that both for stopping safety, and added risk due to momentum and efficiency sake).

The diy gear heads will likely mod their vehicles to skirt these limiters .... but at least if they're part of the stock vehicle setup, i dont have to worry about any random idiot on the road now having a high performance missile at their command while they're busy checking twitter and driving. And that's good. Because most people aren't race car drivers and dont think like one, so they shouldn't be driving something that can perform like one that easily.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

You could do the exact same thing with ICE all day long, but no manufacturer has done so. Instead, they kept using decades old tech, hardware and software for as long as they could, until Tesla crapped on their plates and now they're scrambling for chips that nobody wants to manufacture anymore at a profit of $0.01 per unit. Them "reinventing the market" just means they want to abandon the old playfield, ditch their products and attempt to play the same game in the perceived upwardly mobile EV market.

For this reason, with the exception of Tesla pioneering and guinea pigging the market, such possibilities in software are unlikely to translate into usable functionality under the current climate (pun intended).

The flip side is equally true and is more likely unfortunately—instead of the (optional) "Randy Pobst - Willow Springs" tune you crave, you'll get a mandatory speed and acceleration limiter called something like "gm 'everybody in' advanced velocity management calibration update for maximum safety, climate preservation and equity" one morning, say, as a result of a street racing crash that incurs a 'massive uproar' caused by 'flagrant disregard of the law' by 'subversive elements in our society'. Modern technology makes it that much easier to brute force everyone into submission than to weed out the chaff.

1st you are correct, Tesla has convinced everyone that OAP is an EV thing. GM can do limited OAP with OnStar and did it before Tesla.

I don’t see where you think GM would ever have an oppressive software limitation. They’ve never done it and there is no indication they intend to. Now if the government mandates speed, HP or performance, that wouldn’t be GM

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by L99BEN

The Tesla S Plaid would blow your mind if you're impressed with the Model 3...
The Plaid is always in-gear, in the powerband and set to kill from any speed. The acceleration never gets old and the performance is undeniable no matter the conditions, DA, fuel quality, enjoyed whenever while never having to worry about breaking anything.

Ultimate daily driver, practical, comfortable family car for the speed junky enthusiast in me. Would absolutely buy again if I could go back in time!

Maybe it's because I am "middle-aged" but at this point I prefer to enjoy the loud, flashy, performance combustion toys on the weekend!



I agree the fake Dodge EV noise is super cheesy. Hope it can be turned on/off!

I am sure it would. I recall the first drive in my Tesla Model 3 Performance. There was this weird feeling when it hit me that the 0-60mph game has become meaningless. As a kid growing up I always loved the 0-60mph and 1/4mi specs and now they are becoming somewhat meaningless as EV minivans will be able to accelerate harder than V8 muscle cars.

Furthermore, it is not just how quick they are but how little effort and drama is required to go 0-60mph in 3 sec or less, or 30-50mph in 1.2 sec or 50-70mph in 1.7 sec. Also, like you mentioned, there is no need to warm up the motor or factor in high elevations, fuel quality, etc. I find it amazing and kind of depressing at the same time.

I am not all in on EV or ICE, I appreciate both and own both but I do think GM can build a fun to drive EV performance car but it won't be fun as a result of the sounds it makes or the ability to shift gears.