Positive run-in with some cops yesterday

[rickr9504]

Originally Posted by fish907

While you make such a compelling argument, there's no conspiracy theories here. You only have to be semi-aware of what is going on in this world to realize that personal privacy and individual freedoms are being attacked.

How do you get people to accept changes like this? Fear and conditioning, for starters. Look up and you already have someone here that is willing to give up some rights in order to feel more secure, and another just to save some time and hassle. Where's the line, though? You give up too many rights, you don't get to draw it.

Yeah, I know I'm pushing it with the mods, and the irony of this thread being locked won't be lost on me.

I agree with you, you cannot be pulled over without a reason. If you did not commit a crime the police cannot detain you and they need a warrant to search your car. For those that are not aware, there is a thing called the Constitution, read it and then the tin foil hat may seem like an ignorant comment.

[lurker]

It's almost incomprehensible to me that people have a problem with a DUI checkpoint. The life saved when they trample some drunk bastard's rights might be your wife or child.

[fish907]

Originally Posted by lurker

It's almost incomprehensible to me that people have a problem with a DUI checkpoint. The life saved when they trample some drunk bastard's rights might be your wife or child.

There's that fear tactic I was talking about. You know what kills more people than drunk driving? Heart disease. Maybe we should set up checkpoints to make sure your lunch is healthy.

How about, once a week, you report to a psychiatrist to make sure you're not a serial killer? While we're at it, let's get rid of personal gun ownership. After all, violence perpetrated by humans against other humans kills more people than drunk driving. You would be willing to give up your second amendment right to save my wife and child, right?

Did you know that texting and driving also kills more people than drunk driving, and is much more widespread? No, checkpoints won't work for this. From here on out, starting your vehicle disables all cellular devices inside the vehicle. Actually, a lot of people die texting and walking, too. Nothing that can cause a distraction around anything dangerous will be tolerated. This includes phones, tablets, conversations with the person next to you, and daydreaming.

Oh, you know what? Scratch that last one. National security is far too important to eliminate such a great tool for spying on our people. There are dangerous men and women out there and we must be able to keep tabs on their texts, calls, browsing history, and anti-government sentiments on car message boards. If a few drops of blood need to be shed, so be it. The needs of the many ...

Yeah man, I get it. Driving drunk is stupid, dangerous, and often fatal for not just the criminal, but also innocent people caught up in the irresponsible behavior. But, so are a lot of things. You can't insulate you and your family from everything dangerous in this world. What makes DUI checkpoints acceptable, and weekly psych screenings sound ridiculous?

I hear experts spout off about 'gateway drugs' all the time. No one seems to talk about 'gateway tyranny'.

[GroundPilot]

Originally Posted by fish907

There's that fear tactic I was talking about. You know what kills more people than drunk driving? Heart disease. Maybe we should set up checkpoints to make sure your lunch is healthy.

How about, once a week, you report to a psychiatrist to make sure you're not a serial killer? While we're at it, let's get rid of personal gun ownership. After all, violence perpetrated by humans against other humans kills more people than drunk driving. You would be willing to give up your second amendment right to save my wife and child, right?

Did you know that texting and driving also kills more people than drunk driving, and is much more widespread? No, checkpoints won't work for this. From here on out, starting your vehicle disables all cellular devices inside the vehicle. Actually, a lot of people die texting and walking, too. Nothing that can cause a distraction around anything dangerous will be tolerated. This includes phones, tablets, conversations with the person next to you, and daydreaming.

Oh, you know what? Scratch that last one. National security is far too important to eliminate such a great tool for spying on our people. There are dangerous men and women out there and we must be able to keep tabs on their texts, calls, browsing history, and anti-government sentiments on car message boards. If a few drops of blood need to be shed, so be it. The needs of the many ...

Yeah man, I get it. Driving drunk is stupid, dangerous, and often fatal for not just the criminal, but also innocent people caught up in the irresponsible behavior. But, so are a lot of things. You can't insulate you and your family from everything dangerous in this world. What makes DUI checkpoints acceptable, and weekly psych screenings sound ridiculous?

I hear experts spout off about 'gateway drugs' all the time. No one seems to talk about 'gateway tyranny'.

I like the cut of your jib sir.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by fish907

What makes DUI checkpoints acceptable, and weekly psych screenings sound ridiculous?

DUI constitutes voluntary criminally negligent behavior, with peak occurrence times and places being reasonably predictable.

Psych screenings/interventions can and do happen given sufficient cause (there was an article in yesterday's Philadelphia paper about behavioral analysis and intervention up to and including involuntary evaluation). Sufficient cause being the operative term.

I hear experts spout off about 'gateway drugs' all the time. No one seems to talk about 'gateway tyranny'.

When the officer at a DUI checkpoint starts asking you lifestyle and personal opinion questions irrelevant to the purpose of a DUI or other police checkpoint, then you may have a point with this 'gateway tyranny' line of thought. But not until such time.


Norm

[13FastBlkSS]

Originally Posted by rickr9504

I agree with you, you cannot be pulled over without a reason. If you did not commit a crime the police cannot detain you and they need a warrant to search your car. For those that are not aware, there is a thing called the Constitution, read it and then the tin foil hat may seem like an ignorant comment.

You sir would be wrong.. there are many reasons a police officer could "detain" you and possibly search your vehicle without a warrant; incident to arrest, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, etc..

I did not have a problem with the first part of the video, I have a problem with the second.. where the driver goes out of his was to go through it again, in hopes of something different happening.. but I am going to leave it at that.

Getting back to the OP initial post, it goes to show that there are still some NICE police officers out there. Not all of them are "out to get you."

[Neuf Cruz]

Sorry, just asking for trouble. If I'm not doing anything wrong them let them do their job. I have had more tickets than most, been arrested blah, blah blah but have learned that this "I know my rights" attitude can get you in trouble. I have had way better luck just being nice, polite and helping the situation. Not provoking it! When the 2nd officer asked to roll down the window and he said no, "I can hear you fine". I can see this pissing an officer off and causing more problems then needed. Not saying what's right or wrong but why take that chance? So you can be a big shot like that tool. This card aint doin shit for you when you weave through and they actually have a suspicion. Try telling the officer no, then and see what happens.
BTW. I have never had a love one die while walking and texting but have had a brother from a drunk driver so check away and search all you want when I'm boarding a plane.
Can you say PARANOID?

[Dizzy82]

Unfortunately threads like these are destined to spiral downhill. Glad you had a positive experience OP, I've never had any issues with the police.

[JTruck]

Originally Posted by rickr9504

I agree with you, you cannot be pulled over without a reason. If you did not commit a crime the police cannot detain you and they need a warrant to search your car. For those that are not aware, there is a thing called the Constitution, read it and then the tin foil hat may seem like an ignorant comment.

The irony in this post is amazing. You sir, are ignorant.

Yes, officers can detain you if you did not commit a crime and yes they can search your car without a warrant, given certain circumstances.

Why not be more educated before posting on a discussion board, go ahead and read the case law that set precedent about DUI checkpoints. Yes, they are legal, yes the officers can stop you just for driving through it.

As for the others in this thread that are so fed up with the policing tactics and/or the laws that are being enforced, stop whining on an internet forum and write a letter to your representatives, you are the constituents.

Here in AZ, we don't have too many check points in the metro area. Rather we have task forces. The amount of DUIs we take off the road on a Friday/Saturday night around a holiday in Scottsdale is staggering. Unfortunately sometimes we can't find them all and some innocent lives are taken in the process.

[rickr9504]

Originally Posted by JTruckenbrod

The irony in this post is amazing. You sir, are ignorant.

Yes, officers can detain you if you did not commit a crime and yes they can search your car without a warrant, given certain circumstances.

Why not be more educated before posting on a discussion board, go ahead and read the case law that set precedent about DUI checkpoints. Yes, they are legal, yes the officers can stop you just for driving through it.

As for the others in this thread that are so fed up with the policing tactics and/or the laws that are being enforced, stop whining on an internet forum and write a letter to your representatives, you are the constituents.

Here in AZ, we don't have too many check points in the metro area. Rather we have task forces. The amount of DUIs we take off the road on a Friday/Saturday night around a holiday in Scottsdale is staggering. Unfortunately sometimes we can't find them all and some innocent lives are taken in the process.

Saying I am wrong does not mean I am. Saying I am ignorant does not mean I am. I don't pull information out of my behind like some of you do.

If the officer interferes with your liberty to move about, he or she should first have a reasonable suspicion that you have been involved in a crime. The officer would need to support this suspicion later (should the matter should wind up in court) by referring to specific facts that prompted the suspicion.

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/m...t-checkpoints/

I am for Police going back to the old motto:"Serve and Protect".

I hope you educate yourself a little bit more before calling others ignorant and maybe we can have an intelligent debate.

[Overflow]

Some people really need to get outside more..

[rickr9504]

Originally Posted by 13FastBlkSS

You sir would be wrong.. there are many reasons a police officer could "detain" you and possibly search your vehicle without a warrant; incident to arrest, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, etc..

I did not have a problem with the first part of the video, I have a problem with the second.. where the driver goes out of his was to go through it again, in hopes of something different happening.. but I am going to leave it at that.

Getting back to the OP initial post, it goes to show that there are still some NICE police officers out there. Not all of them are "out to get you."

This is where you shoot before asking question. My first part said, "you cannot be pulled over without a reason" (or probable cause in case I was not clear enough) then I said "If you did not commit a crime (then, no probable cause) the police cannot detain you and they need a warrant to search your car.". Is that not correct?

If they have probable cause they can search the car but then they'd have to justify it.

I never said what the guy on the video was doing was smart, but just like we all can disagree he has the right to be an ass and drive thru the checkpoint 50 times if he wants. Freedom of movement you ever heard of that?

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/probable-cause/

[rickr9504]

Originally Posted by Overflow

Some people really need to get outside more..

Right? driving a Camaro and not enjoying it, that sucks.

[JTruck]

Originally Posted by rickr9504

Saying I am wrong does not mean I am. Saying I am ignorant does not mean I am. I don't pull information out of my behind like some of you do.

If the officer interferes with your liberty to move about, he or she should first have a reasonable suspicion that you have been involved in a crime. The officer would need to support this suspicion later (should the matter should wind up in court) by referring to specific facts that prompted the suspicion.

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/m...t-checkpoints/

I am for Police going back to the old motto:"Serve and Protect".

I hope you educate yourself a little bit more before calling others ignorant and maybe we can have an intelligent debate.

Ah! Now you are adding to what you initially said, good job.

You initially said: If you did not commit a crime the police cannot detain you and they need a warrant to search your car.

That's completely wrong, the reason why I replied.

Now you add RS in your next post, good job, that's what the law is.

I am very educated, thank you. I would suggest to you instead of educating yourself off of opinionated websites, to instead read the case law and form your own opinion. For this topic, I suggest you start at Michigan vs. Sitz.

This is where you shoot before asking question. My first part said, "you cannot be pulled over without a reason" (or probable cause in case I was not clear enough) then I said "If you did not commit a crime (then, no probable cause) the police cannot detain you and they need a warrant to search your car.". Is that not correct?

If they have probable cause they can search the car but then they'd have to justify it.

You weren't clear enough, that's why I responded. As for the second part, that is not entirely correct. An officer may still detain you when performing an investigation.

Your first post mentioned nothing about RS or PC. I believe we are on the same page now.

I never said what the guy on the video was doing was smart, but just like we all can disagree he has the right to be an ass and drive thru the checkpoint 50 times if he wants. Freedom of movement you ever heard of that?

He can participate in that check point as much as he wants, yes, he does have the freedom to move. Never said anything otherwise. Just wasting his own time, IMHO.

Last reply to this topic.

OP, glad you had a good experience, like someone already said, just normal people doing a job.