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Old 03-01-2016, 09:09 PM   #113
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Agree. And ouch unfortunately for the 3 at PBIR last Thurs night... I feel bad because they're all in the Novice group, and the track was crowded so freight train effect... and then they each had to pit in after 15-20mins (roughly 6 laps or so)... PBIR is not a long course like Sebring. I'd be pissed too...

There were 4 of us total with GT350's but I have the Track pack. I don't run in their Novice group since I run in the other group (Intermed/Advance). I took out both of the Tech pack guys with me each for a quick 10mins or so session so they can experience the course at a much faster pace... one was all new to hpde's and he still hit limp mode in 3 out of his 4 sessions.

Anyway this was during my 3rd session that night and here was one of the runs with the second guy. We had fun and since I had a passenger I was driving 8/10ths to be safe... I know the PBIR course quite well. At the end of the vid, you can hear him complain about not going out anymore since he hit limp mode in his. I Hope Ford makes it right for all the Tech/base car owners...

Man that sounds awesome. I still want a base.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:30 PM   #114
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So what are they then? Grocery getters? The whole GT350 description still on Ford's website list features of why the GT350 is the best mustang ever produced for the track car. Maybe they should use a giant asterisk?



http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/fea...#page=Feature4
No. They are passenger cars legal to operate in all 50 states. Some will never see anything but car shows, some will be used as daily drivers, others will put them on a track. The GT350 model can do it all, but that does not mean every trim level of the GT350 does them equally.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:54 PM   #115
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I don't expect Ford to do anything for base and tech package owners. They were offered the Track Pack and chose not to get it, what's the issue?

Badass that the base SS has coolers though.
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:10 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
No. They are passenger cars legal to operate in all 50 states. Some will never see anything but car shows, some will be used as daily drivers, others will put them on a track. The GT350 model can do it all, but that does not mean every trim level of the GT350 does them equally.
The 15/16 base and tech cars can not be put on the track. Period. Would you subject your car to critical overheating that requires pitting after 10-15 minutes of novice level use? From what I've read, what surprises many is that a GTPP holds up longer/better on a track.
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:41 AM   #117
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The 15/16 base and tech cars can not be put on the track. Period. Would you subject your car to critical overheating that requires pitting after 10-15 minutes of novice level use? From what I've read, what surprises many is that a GTPP holds up longer/better on a track.
Again, nobody is saying every trim level of the GT350 can all perform equally well at all venues. Base and tech GT350's are better daily drivers. Track pack cars are better at HPDE/road courses. The GT350R is the dedicated track king that is also street legal.
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:36 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by hotlapZL1 View Post
The 15/16 base and tech cars can not be put on the track. Period. Would you subject your car to critical overheating that requires pitting after 10-15 minutes of novice level use? From what I've read, what surprises many is that a GTPP holds up longer/better on a track.
Sounds like the C7Z.

Is the GT350 issue really that bad? I frequent the Mustang forums due owning a GT but must have missed all the fuss about the base models overheating. I saw a post or two about the topic but nothing stating it was that bad of an issue. Feel free to toss up some links.
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:57 AM   #119
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Sounds like the C7Z.
That issue should be fixed on all cars except automatics...
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:07 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by hotlapZL1 View Post
The 15/16 base and tech cars can not be put on the track. Period. Would you subject your car to critical overheating that requires pitting after 10-15 minutes of novice level use? From what I've read, what surprises many is that a GTPP holds up longer/better on a track.
I don't see why anyone would bother putting those cars on a track. Makes no sense.
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:26 AM   #121
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Is the GT350 issue really that bad? I frequent the Mustang forums due owning a GT but must have missed all the fuss about the base models overheating. I saw a post or two about the topic but nothing stating it was that bad of an issue. Feel free to toss up some links.
It seems to be
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/show...=44808&page=34
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:36 AM   #122
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Yeah it sounds great! My Z06 is clearly faster/quicker but this GT350 sounds absolutely insane and exotic-like... and honestly it's a bit more fun to drive since it's more raw. It puts the power down well and the turn-in is really good. It feels lighter than it is... I'm amazed but on that note it's still not GT3/GT4 like in terms of balance or even C7-like.. it's close though. I haven't driven the new SS or 1LE yet but I did own a Z51 Stingray and currently the Z06 so I'll compare it to that. I also owned a 5th gen Camaro SS (45th anniv L99) since new but it's unfair to even bring that into the picture. That's like Curry vs. a normal Joe on the court...

First big difference is it's still a tall heavy car but as a whole I give the GT350 an A- grade performance-wise which I'll explain later... and then a B+ grade for the rest that's not power-related due to the lack of features/amenities when compared to what GM gives you because in terms of technology, the C7 and 6th gen Camaros are almost similar now. The best feature is the PDR hands down especially once you analyze your track metrics via Cosworth Toolbox and then also the PTM modes and better DIC/Infotainment features. The Shelby lacks that but what's a cool and useful feature is the configurable head-up display shift lights. Love it... better than GM's shift lights in the HUD.

And the new Recaros are great... I wish I could put them in my C7. One thing I really like in the GT350 is I can toggle-on the MagRide setting to Normal while in other high-performance driving modes (such as Sport, Track, or Drag) but in the C7 you cannot do that. If you want to be in Normal damping, you have to be in the non-Sport or non-Track modes in the C7. In the GT350's MagRide configurable options, you can change nearly any of the modes ā la carte. It may be minor to some but IMO that's better versatility when you're not on the track. I can be in Sport driving mode but Normal damping... no can do on the C7.

The only drawback powerwise on the GT350 albeit minor is you have to keep it in the sweet rpm spot (basically 4k or higher) for you to see powerful pull. The LT1/LT4 torque has the advantage here but the Voodoo revs to the moon so the top end is very strong. Two different engine characters anyway. That's why for me I graded it as an A- because I have been so used to the LT4 torque. The bigger limiting factor at least for my skill level is I need stickier tires! The stock MPSS grips well but I can't push it faster or harder into and out of corners like I can with my Z06 which has Cup 2's. Tires with more grip will transform the balance to R-like and delete the slight understeer the GT350 has. That's my next step... very light wheels with either R-comps or scrubs.

As for braking, absolutely zero complaints. The best non-CCB brakes period. Yes, even just as good or better than the Z06's. It's very strong when needed and it's consistent and also has a direct linear modulation... so it's accurate and spot on all the time. No fade, no nothing... no mush, no gray area.

E-diff on the C7 is better in terms of taking over to keep you "on the race line" but the Torsen in the Shelby is still pretty good. You just have to hone your skills on turn-ins and exits and both diffs puts power down well anyway. That's probably why I enjoy it more because it is more raw and requires more skill to step up in increments. Basically it's easier to go from 7/10ths to 8/10ths in the C7 than it is in the Shelby. For example at Sebring as well as other tracks, I have to drive the GT350 more different than how I drive the C7 lap per lap. I actually am getting to like it because it's forcing me to develop raw hpde skills more. The e-diff and PTM is akin to Cliff Notes if I can use that analogy.

Basically the C7 can make any driver look fast since the transparent tech greatly helps, but the GT350 requires you to really harness and put into play your skills on the track... I guess this is also why so many Porsche GT3 guys like it as well. Every track venue I have been to... every experienced Porsche track rat wants one or has one on order already. Go to Rennlist and you'll see...

Anyway I hope this helps... they did a good job with this GT350. I'm sure the new 1LE as well as future ZL1 or Z/28 that may/will come out is going to even the playing field or step it up so to speak but so far I'm happy with the GT350 Track Pack. I'd love to have an R but the ADM's are crazy... I'll keep trying though. And I do wish I can track a 1LE for kicks and feedback... it's a closer apples-to-apples comparison instead of comparing with my Z06. I lap the Z06 at least 3 secs faster at PBIR but that's a given considering 2 totally different cars.
Thanks for all this great information! Sounds like you have one heck of a great hobby and opportunity to own all these great cars.

Glad you like the PDR, I was hoping that would be an option for the SS (probably ordering one in the next few months), but it will be available on the 1LE. Same for the eDiff, would have loved that in the SS as well. From what I understand the SS will have the ability to fully customize the various modes to your liking, but perhaps a current SS owner can chime in here. Again, thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed first hand account of these various cars. Sounds like we are in a new golden age of performance cars with so many awesome choices out there!

I have done a couple of AutoX's, but never an HPDE. Once I get my new SS and break it in, I plan on going to a place about an hour from me. Glad the new SS put in additional cooing for the track standard. It will be my daily driver with occasional track days. The SS seems to fit the bill nicely.
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:46 AM   #123
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72% of 350's can't run more then 5 laps without going into limp mode. Summer is not even here yet. So yes it's a big deal. Even short shifting brings out the limp mode. Ford changed all 17 models to include all three coolers. So ford knows about this.
Buyer beware on the tech and base 350.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:06 AM   #124
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What also appears to be an issue is because so many dealers used their allocations to order up the cars that they thought would appeal to the most (GT350 Tech's) that people couldn't find an allocation to even ORDER a Track Pack.
I'd say in this case..the blame goes in multiple directions:

Ford for not just making the coolers standard on all the cars (to keep the base MSRP low I'm sure)

Dealers for flooding the market with handicapped Tech Pack cars because they thought people would just treat them as garage queens (which I'm not sure they're wrong)

Buyers for, in some cases, knowing about the limitations but still buying the cars because they just had to have it.

Ford is apparently stepping up to the plate and working on a solution, but I'm sure it's a situation they weren't anticipating would boil over this much.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:18 AM   #125
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Yes, it is. That's me Bossing over there and it's a shame the 3 fellas that night experienced reduced power mode in their runs. I'd also be upset and as stated would demand Ford to "make it right".
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:00 PM   #126
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Yes, it is. That's me Bossing over there and it's a shame the 3 fellas that night experienced reduced power mode in their runs. I'd also be upset and as stated would demand Ford to "make it right".
I don't understand how Ford could make it right. These buyers bought the non-tracking street car version of the car and expect it to track well? There is nothing to make right, they knew what they bought.
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