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Old 03-21-2019, 12:36 PM   #15
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I have no interest in Dodge making anything smaller and I would think that the appeal of the Challenger and Charger is the size, among the Dodge guys there is a very small number that want the Challenger smaller. There is a number of comments about reducing weight with new tech but with the Challenger and Charger selling as well as they do why change what is working. There is many on this forum that comment on the Challenger and list the main gripe being the weight as a draw back, but when I have my Cutlass parked next to the Challenger it is about the same length. Truth is that the Challenger is what I would have called a mid size car back in the 80's and that is what I am looking for. Today with the new safety requirements plus other factors to make a mid size car like Cutlass I'm sure it would be 4500lbs that is just the reality now.
I want comfort in my ride I can't climb into a car that is hard to get into and out of, I am not able to handle a jarring ride. With someone that has a fused spine I would not be able to ride in a Camaro for more than 30 min and then suffer with the result.

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Old 03-21-2019, 01:31 PM   #16
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They needed a wider wheel and tire setup from the start. Hopefully they don't get beat on by basic bolt on 6 Gen SS' at the strip anymore. It has always been way too much power on a 275 tire.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:37 PM   #17
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I have no interest in Dodge making anything smaller and I would think that the appeal of the Challenger and Charger is the size, among the Dodge guys there is a very small number that want the Challenger smaller. There is a number of comments about reducing weight with new tech but with the Challenger and Charger selling as well as they do why change what is working. There is many on this forum that comment on the Challenger and list the main gripe being the weight as a draw back, but when I have my Cutlass parked next to the Challenger it is about the same length. Truth is that the Challenger is what I would have called a mid size car back in the 80's and that is what I am looking for. Today with the new safety requirements plus other factors to make a mid size car like Cutlass I'm sure it would be 4500lbs that is just the reality now.
I want comfort in my ride I can't climb into a car that is hard to get into and out of, I am not able to handle a jarring ride. With someone that has a fused spine I would not be able to ride in a Camaro for more than 30 min and then suffer with the result.
After reading your health situation, I see what you are saying. You enjoy a larger car that is more comfortable.

When I say, "smaller", I suppose I'm talking more about the vehicle's weight. Sure, the exterior dimensions would have to shrink slightly, but I'm not talking about making a car the size of a Dodge Omni. I would actually like to see a new 'Cuda that would be in the neighborhood of ~3,800 lbs. Considering the Challenger is strictly focused on the 1/4 mile, a slightly smaller and lighter platform would only improve it's performance stats.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:19 PM   #18
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That is why the Charger and Challenger are still running on the same >10 year old platforms with minor tweaks here and there. FCA delegates the money and the money is stretched thin.
Dodge actually was trying to replace the Charger/Challenger chassis with the Alfa Romeo Giulia chassis, but in the testing process, the Hellcat setup kept twisting the frames...

They've been trying to find a suitable replacement, but the reality is that IF there is a next generation version of either car, it's going to be smaller.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:45 PM   #19
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Again, I'm not here to argue guys. I simply enjoy the discussion.
I'm not bashing the platform's life cycle. For what Dodge has to work with (financially), they've done a good job. New engines, trim levels, wide-bodies, etc.. They've wrung the Hell out of this platform, but to say that they have the finances to design and develop a new car, but they choose not to...eh, I'm not buying it. Believe me, if they had the option, they would've put out a lighter, more nimble vehicle years ago with just as much, if not more horsepower. Easily, the biggest gripe on the Challenger, is the weight. Dodge has attempted to shave a few pounds here and there, but you have to work with what you are given. There's only so much you can do with a ~4,450 lb. car.

IMHO, there has been a car war going on for quite some time. Chevy, Ford and Dodge haven't been pushing each other to put out the nastiest pony car on the planet? ZL1 1LE, GT500, Hellcat, Demon???

I agree, their marketing department is terrific.
I agree it's fun to just discuss.

IMHO (and I am of course bias) none of those, especially for the money, are as good of a car for what I was looking for. Brutal performance, comfort, etc.

Then you get into "the mods" and while it's for sure a heavy pig, with the exception of the diff the car is better equipped, and much cheaper, to mod. The redeye version getting the Demons trans (which is good to "they say" around 1200) out of the box, axles, fuel system, etc if I want sink just a few thousand I could get 1000 fairly easy.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:47 PM   #20
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They needed a wider wheel and tire setup from the start. Hopefully they don't get beat on by basic bolt on 6 Gen SS' at the strip anymore. It has always been way too much power on a 275 tire.
Widebody get's 305's and there are some, at least in the WB challenger format, running 325's.

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After reading your health situation, I see what you are saying. You enjoy a larger car that is more comfortable.

When I say, "smaller", I suppose I'm talking more about the vehicle's weight. Sure, the exterior dimensions would have to shrink slightly, but I'm not talking about making a car the size of a Dodge Omni. I would actually like to see a new 'Cuda that would be in the neighborhood of ~3,800 lbs. Considering the Challenger is strictly focused on the 1/4 mile, a slightly smaller and lighter platform would only improve it's performance stats.
Nothing wrong with a GLHS I thought that car was awesome when I was a teenager
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:52 AM   #21
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I'd like them to lose weight, but not lose the muscle car looks.
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:45 PM   #22
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Jeep is one of the best selling brands of 4x4's, so they are fine. Chrysler and Dodge would be the first to feel the heat. The Jeep Grand Cherokee already outsells the Durango >3:1 and if you don't absolutely require 3rd row seating, why even look at one? And again, the Caravan is simply in a dead market. They are indeed in a very tough spot.
I feel they are leaning too heavily on Jeep, a loaded Wrangler now costs around $62,000. That is absurd. People aren't going to continue to pay these prices. Inventory is already building up to the point that huge discounts are now needed to move units, which Wrangler never had before.

The 3-row segment is hot right now, the Durango is a fantastic ride. Part of the sales issue is production capacity. They are built on the same line as Grand Cherokee, and Jeep has higher margins and more marketable.

Caravan is not exactly dead, they sold 151,000 last year. Of course the question still remains how much of that is fleet.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:45 AM   #23
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I agree it's fun to just discuss.

IMHO (and I am of course bias) none of those, especially for the money, are as good of a car for what I was looking for. Brutal performance, comfort, etc.

Then you get into "the mods" and while it's for sure a heavy pig, with the exception of the diff the car is better equipped, and much cheaper, to mod. The redeye version getting the Demons trans (which is good to "they say" around 1200) out of the box, axles, fuel system, etc if I want sink just a few thousand I could get 1000 fairly easy.
Certainly, you're more interested in 1/4 mile performance; therefore, the Challenger is right up your alley. Different strokes for different folks!
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:46 AM   #24
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Widebody get's 305's and there are some, at least in the WB challenger format, running 325's.



Nothing wrong with a GLHS I thought that car was awesome when I was a teenager
LOL! Yea, those Omni's were bad to the bone!
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:48 AM   #25
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I feel they are leaning too heavily on Jeep, a loaded Wrangler now costs around $62,000. That is absurd. People aren't going to continue to pay these prices. Inventory is already building up to the point that huge discounts are now needed to move units, which Wrangler never had before.

The 3-row segment is hot right now, the Durango is a fantastic ride. Part of the sales issue is production capacity. They are built on the same line as Grand Cherokee, and Jeep has higher margins and more marketable.

Caravan is not exactly dead, they sold 151,000 last year. Of course the question still remains how much of that is fleet.
Agreed, the Wrangler used to be a fairly cheap, rudimentary 4x4 that was good for field-hopping, trail-running, etc.. They've now turned it into a more metrosexual vehicle. Leather, touchscreen stereo, nav, heated seats, etc.. The ruggedness is gone and not many people are going to take their new $55k Wrangler running in the woods.

Minivan sales have plummeted by ~62% in the past 10 years. The market is dead.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:29 AM   #26
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More detail in the Charger WB

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Old 03-25-2019, 10:23 AM   #27
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Certainly, you're more interested in 1/4 mile performance; therefore, the Challenger is right up your alley. Different strokes for different folks!
The widebody version isn't a slouch in those "other" performance areas either. It might not be a ZR1 but still it ain't too shabby. I think a lot of people don't realize that.
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:25 AM   #28
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LOL! Yea, those Omni's were bad to the bone!
You know the one I really liked was the 2 door coupe style version. I'm getting old and memory isn't what it use to be but wasn't it referred to as a Charger?

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Agreed, the Wrangler used to be a fairly cheap, rudimentary 4x4 that was good for field-hopping, trail-running, etc.. They've now turned it into a more metrosexual vehicle. Leather, touchscreen stereo, nav, heated seats, etc.. The ruggedness is gone and not many people are going to take their new $55k Wrangler running in the woods.

Minivan sales have plummeted by ~62% in the past 10 years. The market is dead.
Cars in general have gotten much more expensive. Hell everything has gotten more expensive.
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