[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Unfortunately, it is.

Ok, dug in a bit. It seems to be the "crappy" power supplies like Dell and such. Not so much "high end PCs"

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

It's not that hard to understand when you have many, many piggies on the road waiting to give you tickets.

And heh, different people have different hobbies. Some people spend that money on audio equipment or a boat that you may see as a waste of money.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate my V8, but at the same time, if I don't track the car, I would definitely consider it overkill.

If I lived somewhere I couldn’t stretch its legs out because of space or too many piggy’s, I’d probably just not buy a sports car. I just feel without the v8, the car has a lot less presence on the road and isn’t nearly as fun. Again I’m glad people buy the non v8’s. Just explaining how I still can’t understand settling for one that doesn’t have a v8 (when it comes to the pony cars). If I lived somewhere like you described I’d probably have something like an m235i. I know they’re almost as fast, but they are less sporty and have other things to offer that I could appreciate if I lived somewhere I can’t always stretch it’s legs.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Canada too

Canada to ban sale of new fuel-powered cars and light trucks from 2035
https://www.reuters.com/world/americ...35-2021-06-29/

Would love to see how that works in -30 C temperature.

Seems like some people are very disconnected from the reality, especially considering how unhappy Alberta already is with all the BS the federal government gives them.

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Also, a variation on this:


Person A: The V6 is so slow


Person B: The electric Camaro will be faster than any previous V8 Camaro


Person A: It's not about speed!!!!!!!

Pretty solid point.

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

If I lived somewhere I couldn’t stretch its legs out because of space or too many piggy’s, I’d probably just not buy a sports car. I just feel without the v8, the car has a lot less presence on the road and isn’t nearly as fun. Again I’m glad people buy the non v8’s. Just explaining how I still can’t understand settling for one that doesn’t have a v8 (when it comes to the pony cars). If I lived somewhere like you described I’d probably have something like an m235i. I know they’re almost as fast, but they are less sporty and have other things to offer that I could appreciate if I lived somewhere I can’t always stretch it’s legs.

See, you are referring a Camaro as both a pony car and a sports car now. It is capable enough to really blur the line now. IMO, if we are respecting the Camaro as a sports car, then the engine choice doesn't matter as much. Heck, the lower weight of the 2.0T and V6 is a favourable characteristic for a sports car. Could be great for AutoX where power doesn't matter too much.

Less presence is great when it comes to avoiding piggies. Having a Shock SS 1LE has been pretty interesting for me, for sure. I appreciate the attention it gets from people, but man I now have to constantly look over my shoulder for piggies.

And I personally like Miatas quite a bit, but I can't see myself driving one in North America with all the people trying to compensate for something by driving a pickup truck. Perhaps in Japan or Europe.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Less presence is great when it comes to avoiding piggies. Having a Shock SS 1LE has been pretty interesting for me, for sure. I appreciate the attention it gets from people, but man I now have to constantly look over my shoulder for piggies

Good point about having less presence in regards to that. That being said this past weekend I had two different instances of other cars flashing their lights at me to warn me about cops. Would that have happened if I were in a vehicle with less presence? Can’t say for sure but if I had to guess I would say no. I never get warned when I’m in my daily driver.

Funny you brought up the miata. I just drove one. I think it’s fun in some way, but again I like to be shoved back in my seat by torque. That is my number 1 priority so I can’t see myself getting one unless I make more money and can justify either Ls swapping it or turboing it. I’d love a miata if it had like 300 whp. That would be a ton of fun. I’m actually genuinely curious what an electric miata will be like in the future if they can get battery weight down. Electrification solves the torque issue for me and they never sounded good to begin with so not missing much if/when they make an electric miata.

[rocket403]

In Canada we pay over 50 cents of tax on a Litre of gas as the EV's take money away from those taxes how will governments make up the shortfall, and the cost for infrastructure from Hydro power upgrades (Power Plants, Lines)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcm...h=295553303e0a

The U.S. collected $44 billion in fuel taxes in 2015

https://www.automotiveworld.com/arti...ehicle-future/

[Envious_Ivy1LE]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

If I lived somewhere I couldn’t stretch its legs out because of space or too many piggy’s, I’d probably just not buy a sports car. I just feel without the v8, the car has a lot less presence on the road and isn’t nearly as fun. Again I’m glad people buy the non v8’s. Just explaining how I still can’t understand settling for one that doesn’t have a v8 (when it comes to the pony cars). If I lived somewhere like you described I’d probably have something like an m235i. I know they’re almost as fast, but they are less sporty and have other things to offer that I could appreciate if I lived somewhere I can’t always stretch it’s legs.

if you're going to stretch the legs of any sports car, cops will be a concern. I would have to imagine an M235i, even in a dull color, would get pulled over more in a lot of areas just because of the BMW badge and it's not an SUV.

But for a lot of people who might want a T4/V6 it's about affordability. At the time I was shopping, in my budget, my options were Civic SI, Veloster N, or Audi A4 (not a sports car but quick and comfortable). Most people aren't going to wait to save up money to get the V8 they'll just move to something similar in their price range.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by rocket403

In Canada we pay over 50 cents of tax on a Litre of gas as the EV's take money away from those taxes how will governments make up the shortfall, and the cost for infrastructure from Hydro power upgrades (Power Plants, Lines)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcm...h=295553303e0a

The U.S. collected $44 billion in fuel taxes in 2015

https://www.automotiveworld.com/arti...ehicle-future/

Mileage tax for electric cars

[Envious_Ivy1LE]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Mileage tax for electric cars

I feelike someone posted an article the other day that says they are already thinking of imposing a mileage tax on all cars... driving is about to become an expensive luxury

[rocket403]

I had brought this up in General Auto under the EV Dodge title, I have spent over 20 years designing roads, Highways and before that I designed gas stations in and around Toronto. Costs in just the Hydro upgrades could be huge, and in area's that rely on Coal for energy their will be a larger cost, Texas has already shown that they need to invest in their Electricity sector.

Then what happens when you have EV's that need a battery replaced we are hoping that by that time that we are able to recycle them.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

If I lived somewhere I couldn’t stretch its legs out because of space or too many piggy’s, I’d probably just not buy a sports car. I just feel without the v8, the car has a lot less presence on the road and isn’t nearly as fun. Again I’m glad people buy the non v8’s. Just explaining how I still can’t understand settling for one that doesn’t have a v8 (when it comes to the pony cars). If I lived somewhere like you described I’d probably have something like an m235i. I know they’re almost as fast, but they are less sporty and have other things to offer that I could appreciate if I lived somewhere I can’t always stretch it’s legs.

even the T4s and 6s are sporty,good handling cars.you dont need to rip the treads off the back tires to appreciate them.where i live i cant use more than 1/2 throttle much of the time,but i still enjoy my camaro.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Envious_Ivy1LE

But for a lot of people who might want a T4/V6 it's about affordability. At the time I was shopping, in my budget, my options were Civic SI, Veloster N, or Audi A4 (not a sports car but quick and comfortable). Most people aren't going to wait to save up money to get the V8 they'll just move to something similar in their price range.

See I went through this. I couldn’t afford a v8, didn’t want the v6 version of the car I wanted (mustang) so I bought a civic si instead. Biggest disappointment of my life! Every time I saw a mustang GT, I was envious. That is what I truly wanted at the time. The civic was something I was interested in but didn’t want it that bad. Bought it because it was affordable. What that taught me was it’s better to save up and get what you want in life(not just with cars) then to settle for something less. If I had just continued driving what I was instead of buying the SI, I could have gotten my v8 muscle/sports car sooner. But because I didn’t, I had to wait even longer. Lesson learned and patience will be something I teach my future kids. Because in the end, the hard work and patience will be worth it when you get what you truly want!

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by Envious_Ivy1LE

if you're going to stretch the legs of any sports car, cops will be a concern. I would have to imagine an M235i, even in a dull color, would get pulled over more in a lot of areas just because of the BMW badge and it's not an SUV.

But for a lot of people who might want a T4/V6 it's about affordability. At the time I was shopping, in my budget, my options were Civic SI, Veloster N, or Audi A4 (not a sports car but quick and comfortable). Most people aren't going to wait to save up money to get the V8 they'll just move to something similar in their price range.

i paid cash for my 6 cylinder...could have gotten the V8 if i saw it as needed.id rather have the RS options(HUD,leather etc.)that i can use all the time without getting pulled over.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I showed an example where CARB mandated a change that forced offending technology out of the state ..."for the people". They didn't care about the cost. They didn't care that it went into effect during the great recession. A 14 year old truck is forced to leave the state.

They announced the goal of no new gasoline engines in California by 2035. Will they force the offending ICE technology out? They've done it before.

But not on the scale that they're proposing this time around.


Norm

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

Good point about having less presence in regards to that. That being said this past weekend I had two different instances of other cars flashing their lights at me to warn me about cops. Would that have happened if I were in a vehicle with less presence? Can’t say for sure but if I had to guess I would say no. I never get warned when I’m in my daily driver.



Funny you brought up the miata. I just drove one. I think it’s fun in some way, but again I like to be shoved back in my seat by torque. That is my number 1 priority so I can’t see myself getting one unless I make more money and can justify either Ls swapping it or turboing it. I’d love a miata if it had like 300 whp. That would be a ton of fun. I’m actually genuinely curious what an electric miata will be like in the future if they can get battery weight down. Electrification solves the torque issue for me and they never sounded good to begin with so not missing much if/when they make an electric miata.

I mean, you don't get warnings with a family sedan, but you don't really need them, do you? Never got in trouble when I drove my friend's Mazda6. Even in my RX-8, I only got a warning, not tickets.

And the ND2's power delivery surprised me. Miatas in general have this trick where they feel faster than they really are. The short gear ratios are a part of that, probably. It's just that, in the town, I can still floor it and I wouldn't be blowing past the speed limit, while if I want to do that in the Camaro, I have to find a place where I can get away with it. Track is generally a good outlet for that, but even then, it will depending on the track itself.

And part of the fun of driving an MX-5 also comes from the stick shift. Miata has a pretty high manual take rate, about the same as the automatic counterpart. I even remember visiting the local Mazda dealer once and there was an old lady, probably in her 70s or 80s, and her ND Miata is a 6-speed. Torque is just no big deal when you weigh under 2500 pounds, particularly with those gear ratios.

As for the affordability point, remember that maintenance and consumable are a big part as well. Yeah, you can pick up an E90 3 series for pretty cheap nowadays, but I hope you have some deep pockets for that N54 engine... Camaro SS will have more expensive consumables than the non-V8 counterparts, that's for sure.