thinking about going with Flex Fuel E85 - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Twoblindsheep · 11-23-2016, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bildo

I personally wouldn't screw with E-85 unless I was doing FI or nitrous just spending money for not really too much benefit.

For E85? with high compression is why I wanna do E85. Ive seen people hit 520rwhp with cam cars. plus ill be running flex so I can still use 93

xXSicSicSicXx · 11-23-2016, 05:42 PM

why not just get a fuel pump and injectors that will handle bigger hp down the road. too pricey to buy twice..

RS Speedriver · 11-23-2016, 05:48 PM

no worth it. plus there isnt many gas stations that have that fuel available.

xXSicSicSicXx · 11-23-2016, 05:50 PM

All i know is the "zl1" pump in my 1le couldn't keep up with my blower, making 578whp. Decided to go with dual walbro's instead. good for 1000hp on e85. 578 doesn't feel like enough either.. so i'm doing a flex fuel set up with ID1300's and removing the restrictor plate for more boost. Should be sitting pretty after that.

If it were me, i'd go a little bigger and better in case i wanted more.. like i'm doing now.

Twoblindsheep · 11-23-2016, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RS Speedriver

no worth it. plus there isnt many gas stations that have that fuel available.

hmm explain why its not worth it.. and there is plenty out here in the midwest.. actually they are just about everywhere here.. also thats the reason why ill get flex fuel.. that means i can run E85 or 93 if i want..

camrytt · 11-23-2016, 08:31 PM

I got 27 hp/16 tq on my old lfx from switching to e85, I'd say that's worth it.

DOC52 · 11-25-2016, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXSicSicSicXx

All i know is the "zl1" pump in my 1le couldn't keep up with my blower, making 578whp. Decided to go with dual walbro's instead. good for 1000hp on e85. 578 doesn't feel like enough either.. so i'm doing a flex fuel set up with ID1300's and removing the restrictor plate for more boost. Should be sitting pretty after that.

If it were me, i'd go a little bigger and better in case i wanted more.. like i'm doing now.

+1

bad ass system

ZL1 Lingenfelter · 11-27-2016, 06:52 PM

Just do your research on Fuel Injector Connection (not clinic) Injectors, and Deatschwerks. They make excellent injectors for 1/2 the price of Injector Dynamics. As far as the pump - you may want to look at a CTS-V pump vs a ZL1. Deatschwerks makes a drop in pump for the CTSV that increases flow above the ZL1, but they dont fit in the ZL1 pump assy for some reason. Just a suggestion

ZL1 Lingenfelter · 11-27-2016, 06:59 PM

Also- I'm no expert, but prior to this, I have never heard of the "different spray pattern" as Injector Dynamics and the other brands I'm familiar with (FIC and DW) all seem to offer LS3/L99/LSA injectors with the same part number? The ONLY differences I've seen are the electrical connector type may vary and some offer adapters to compensate. But to MY knowledge they seem to be the same, and I didnt see any mention of a "different spray pattern".

pir4te · 11-27-2016, 08:15 PM

Forget the notion of suppliers as experts, fuel dynamics are stuffed when you change the angle and pattern. It's that simple.
Without going into tech jargon, see the videos below which illustrate the difference.
Injector flow rate is about HP for sure, but with the e38 just as important for safe efficient running, emissions and economy there's a world of difference in transient fuelling characteristics for stomp, impact, wall wetting and evaporation off the back of the intake valve. Huge difference in characteristics with ethanol blends and intake valve temp.
Our naturally aspirated injector:
[video]https://youtu.be/2M8_pajYx6c[/video]
The different pattern quite literally for different aims with supercharged:
[video]https://youtu.be/WI6_KkT2ro4[/video]
Anyone who reckons it doesn't make any difference to overall performance is either talking WOT at the drag strip else is not the one who has to tune the e38's fuel dynamic / transients on flex fuel.

ZL1 Lingenfelter · 11-27-2016, 09:17 PM

I understand your point. MY POINT is the replacement injectors offered by the top companies (at least here in the US) dont Appear to offer different spray patterns between NA and SC offerings. I'm sure there are some variations between companies, but its hard to determine who's returns the best results. I've used Bosch, Deatschwerks, and now run Fuel Injector Connection on my LSA. But I didnt spray test them. They each come with the transient data, and are nearly plug and play. They all seem to work fine in my car at around 800hp at the crank - although starting when hot on e85 takes a little more effort.

pir4te · 11-28-2016, 02:44 AM

They are all modified Bosch, aren't they?
Not arguing but OP is NA, so not a good idea to use completely different spray pattern and angle for everyday. Can't tune that. But agreed all single cone S/C offerings with modified Bosch are similar to each other.

DOC52 · 11-28-2016, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pir4te

Forget the notion of suppliers as experts, fuel dynamics are stuffed when you change the angle and pattern. It's that simple.
Without going into tech jargon, see the videos below which illustrate the difference.
Injector flow rate is about HP for sure, but with the e38 just as important for safe efficient running, emissions and economy there's a world of difference in transient fuelling characteristics for stomp, impact, wall wetting and evaporation off the back of the intake valve. Huge difference in characteristics with ethanol blends and intake valve temp.
Our naturally aspirated injector:
[video]https://youtu.be/2M8_pajYx6c[/video]
The different pattern quite literally for different aims with supercharged:
[video]https://youtu.be/WI6_KkT2ro4[/video]
Anyone who reckons it doesn't make any difference to overall performance is either talking WOT at the drag strip else is not the one who has to tune the e38's fuel dynamic / transients on flex fuel.

Really enjoyed the vids. Great content.

Twoblindsheep · 11-30-2016, 01:37 PM

sorry I haven't been able to reply but im overseas right now and wifi and network isn't always around or for daily uses. but there is a lot of great information you guys are giving me. like I said im still new to all this so anything information is good knowledge to me.
car did just roll off the dyno this week and we are looking at 518.6/507.5 on dynojet.. so now im gonna start looking at getting parts.. might take me a bit to get everything together but it seems like a good idea on getting something a little bigger incase I wanna add more power down the road.. I would like to stay NA running E85 but procharger sounds nice too lol

11-23-2016, 08:31 PM	#20
camrytt Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 592	I got 27 hp/16 tq on my old lfx from switching to e85, I'd say that's worth it. __________________ Current: 2017 ZL1 A10 previous: 2019 1SS A10 previous: '14 L99, CAI intake, vmax ported tb, e85 kit, stage 2 cnc heads, speed engineering long tubes, custom high flows, resonated x pipe, muffler delete, qtp cut outs, gpi ss3 vvt Cam, zl1 pump and injectors, fti triple disc, mayhem motorsports trans cooler and tune, ngk spark plugs +red msd wires, 3.91 gears. Past: '12 LFX, full bolt ons + E85, 302hp/267tq

11-27-2016, 06:52 PM	#22
ZL1 Lingenfelter Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Auburn, IN Posts: 152 View My Garage	Just do your research on Fuel Injector Connection (not clinic) Injectors, and Deatschwerks. They make excellent injectors for 1/2 the price of Injector Dynamics. As far as the pump - you may want to look at a CTS-V pump vs a ZL1. Deatschwerks makes a drop in pump for the CTSV that increases flow above the ZL1, but they dont fit in the ZL1 pump assy for some reason. Just a suggestion __________________ 2013 Coupe M6

11-27-2016, 06:59 PM	#23
ZL1 Lingenfelter Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Auburn, IN Posts: 152 View My Garage	Also- I'm no expert, but prior to this, I have never heard of the "different spray pattern" as Injector Dynamics and the other brands I'm familiar with (FIC and DW) all seem to offer LS3/L99/LSA injectors with the same part number? The ONLY differences I've seen are the electrical connector type may vary and some offer adapters to compensate. But to MY knowledge they seem to be the same, and I didnt see any mention of a "different spray pattern". __________________ 2013 Coupe M6

11-27-2016, 08:15 PM	#24
pir4te Moonshiner Drives: Holden SS-V L77 flex fuel Join Date: May 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 166	Forget the notion of suppliers as experts, fuel dynamics are stuffed when you change the angle and pattern. It's that simple. Without going into tech jargon, see the videos below which illustrate the difference. Injector flow rate is about HP for sure, but with the e38 just as important for safe efficient running, emissions and economy there's a world of difference in transient fuelling characteristics for stomp, impact, wall wetting and evaporation off the back of the intake valve. Huge difference in characteristics with ethanol blends and intake valve temp. Our naturally aspirated injector: [video]https://youtu.be/2M8_pajYx6c[/video] The different pattern quite literally for different aims with supercharged: [video]https://youtu.be/WI6_KkT2ro4[/video] Anyone who reckons it doesn't make any difference to overall performance is either talking WOT at the drag strip else is not the one who has to tune the e38's fuel dynamic / transients on flex fuel. __________________ Compression is King. Naturally as-pirated, all-motor, all alcohol.

11-27-2016, 09:17 PM	#25
ZL1 Lingenfelter Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Auburn, IN Posts: 152 View My Garage	I understand your point. MY POINT is the replacement injectors offered by the top companies (at least here in the US) dont Appear to offer different spray patterns between NA and SC offerings. I'm sure there are some variations between companies, but its hard to determine who's returns the best results. I've used Bosch, Deatschwerks, and now run Fuel Injector Connection on my LSA. But I didnt spray test them. They each come with the transient data, and are nearly plug and play. They all seem to work fine in my car at around 800hp at the crank - although starting when hot on e85 takes a little more effort. __________________ 2013 Coupe M6

11-23-2016, 05:42 PM	#16
xXSicSicSicXx Drives: 14 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 'merica Posts: 261	why not just get a fuel pump and injectors that will handle bigger hp down the road. too pricey to buy twice..

11-23-2016, 05:48 PM	#17
RS Speedriver Drives: 2018 camaro 1ss 1LE Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: B.C. Pitt Meadows Posts: 305 View My Garage	no worth it. plus there isnt many gas stations that have that fuel available.

11-23-2016, 05:50 PM	#18
xXSicSicSicXx Drives: 14 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 'merica Posts: 261	All i know is the "zl1" pump in my 1le couldn't keep up with my blower, making 578whp. Decided to go with dual walbro's instead. good for 1000hp on e85. 578 doesn't feel like enough either.. so i'm doing a flex fuel set up with ID1300's and removing the restrictor plate for more boost. Should be sitting pretty after that. If it were me, i'd go a little bigger and better in case i wanted more.. like i'm doing now.

11-28-2016, 02:44 AM	#26
pir4te Moonshiner Drives: Holden SS-V L77 flex fuel Join Date: May 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 166	They are all modified Bosch, aren't they? Not arguing but OP is NA, so not a good idea to use completely different spray pattern and angle for everyday. Can't tune that. But agreed all single cone S/C offerings with modified Bosch are similar to each other. __________________ Compression is King. Naturally as-pirated, all-motor, all alcohol.

11-30-2016, 01:37 PM	#28
Twoblindsheep [COTW 1/6/14] Drives: 2017 1LE Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Scott AFB/STL Posts: 2,004	sorry I haven't been able to reply but im overseas right now and wifi and network isn't always around or for daily uses. but there is a lot of great information you guys are giving me. like I said im still new to all this so anything information is good knowledge to me. car did just roll off the dyno this week and we are looking at 518.6/507.5 on dynojet.. so now im gonna start looking at getting parts.. might take me a bit to get everything together but it seems like a good idea on getting something a little bigger incase I wanna add more power down the road.. I would like to stay NA running E85 but procharger sounds nice too lol