thinking about going with Flex Fuel E85 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Twoblindsheep · 11-21-2016, 01:50 PM

so guys im thinking about getting flex fuel E85 on my car. I was wondering if you guys can help me out with where I would start looking on kits and what I would need to make this work.
current mod is ERL 416ci, LT, CAM, Heads, NW102 TB with ported FAST intake.

Bildo · 11-21-2016, 02:00 PM

To run NA? I am putting together my ERL 427 going E-85 Several site sponsors have the flex fuel sensor kits, I am pretty sure I got mine through Jannety. Need the sensor, lines, injectors, and possibly a pump (I just did the squash dual 450s on a hobbs) but my setup is for FI.

Twoblindsheep · 11-21-2016, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bildo

To run NA? I am putting together my ERL 427 going E-85 Several site sponsors have the flex fuel sensor kits, I am pretty sure I got mine through Jannety. Need the sensor, lines, injectors, and possibly a pump (I just did the squash dual 450s on a hobbs) but my setup is for FI.

yeah ill be running NA set ups. whats the estimated cost for the full kit usually to be running flex e85?
thanks for replying also

G701LE · 11-21-2016, 02:23 PM

ZL1 Lingenfelter · 11-21-2016, 02:36 PM

You will need larger injectors as e85 uses 30% more fuel than pump gas - and I happen to be selling mine. 950cc e85 injectors from Deatchwerks. Less than 1000 miles on em. Paid $700 willing to sell for $500. Let me know if youre interested.

xXSicSicSicXx · 11-21-2016, 03:27 PM

fuel pump, rails, injectors, lines, sensor. the pumps and injectors are the pricey parts

Twoblindsheep · 11-21-2016, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL1 Lingenfelter

You will need larger injectors as e85 uses 30% more fuel than pump gas - and I happen to be selling mine. 950cc e85 injectors from Deatchwerks. Less than 1000 miles on em. Paid $700 willing to sell for $500. Let me know if youre interested.

hmm let me get back to you about that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXSicSicSicXx

fuel pump, rails, injectors, lines, sensor. the pumps and injectors are the pricey parts

will the ZL1 pump and stock LSA injectors do the job?

camrytt · 11-21-2016, 07:41 PM

I've seen so many back and forth things on e85, about whether injectors/fuel pump/etc upgrades are necessary or not.

ZL1 Lingenfelter · 11-21-2016, 07:53 PM

it all depends on what your running and the power your making now, because you're clearly not stock? What size are your current injectors, and what duty cycle are they running? You want your injectors to max out around 80% of their capacity on the dyno to be safe at WOT. Then figure 30% for moving up to e85 - and probably leave room for future add ons. Same is true with the pump situation. Not sure of the flow rate of the stock SS pump - vs a ZL1, but I know at 700whp with a ZL1 and a KB BAP, I am maxed out and start to lose pressure above 6000rpm. If you want to upgrade the pump - look into the CTSV pump - and the Deatchwerks 300 replacement pumps. They're a direct swap for the CTSV units, and flow more than the ZL1 stocker. I use stock ZL1 lines and rails- but not sure if they're diff than yours. The sensor you can pick up online - Continental e85 sensor for impalas will do the trick for about $100. Displays temp and alch %. But you want it away from heat ideally. You really want to pick a tuner - and pick their brain as well.

Here are my 90lb / 950 cc injectors http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474245
I also have my stock ZL1 injectors I'd sell as well.

Hope this helps.

pir4te · 11-21-2016, 08:12 PM

I wouldn't put single cone injectors meant for a supercharger on an NA setup. Not the same spray pattern or angle, and that will stuff the dynamics which are already wacky on ethanol.
Swap ZL1 pump keep LS7 injectors and up FRP a bit above 60 during high flow and crank.
You up the flow base, lower the min pulse, and generally use up-to-date Flex Fuel tables from 2013 Holden SS.
Works fine for me NA near 600 at the crank.

camrytt · 11-21-2016, 08:16 PM

You guys seem to know a lot - what about for someone that doesn't plan on going above bolt ons? I won't be able to do much more than intake, tune, and headers.

Ps sorry to jack the thread

DOC52 · 11-22-2016, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pir4te

I wouldn't put single cone injectors meant for a supercharger on an NA setup. Not the same spray pattern or angle, and that will stuff the dynamics which are already wacky on ethanol.
Swap ZL1 pump keep LS7 injectors and up FRP a bit above 60 during high flow and crank.
You up the flow base, lower the min pulse, and generally use up-to-date Flex Fuel tables from 2013 Holden SS.
Works fine for me NA near 600 at the crank.

+1 if you're upgrading fuel don't cheap out. The lsa injectors have the wrong spray angle.

With a larger motor I would save up and put in a twin pump system and larger injectors like id1000s. You can always tune around bigger injectors. Seen too many people skimp out on a cheap e85 system just to go back another year and re-do everything for more power. It's cost-effective in the long run to just go bigger.

Twoblindsheep · 11-23-2016, 09:27 AM

yeah I had people told me that the ZL1 injectors was fine for E85.. so im glad that I asked about that.
I do need to update the pump to ZL1 as I am still running on stock pump.. I don't know how much im putting down just yet because I car is still in the shop having the Land Speed Stage 3 heads installed and dynoed. as of right now without the heads im putting down 480rwhp/478tq. I should find out how much ill be putting down next week with heads.. but I also know I wanna run flex E85 down the road.. so im trying to start buying parts now or when I find a good deal on them. I know the pump and the injectors aren't gonna be cheap but I just wanna im not just getting the ZL1 injectors and ZL1 fuel pump

Bildo · 11-23-2016, 10:44 AM

I personally wouldn't screw with E-85 unless I was doing FI or nitrous just spending money for not really too much benefit.

11-21-2016, 01:50 PM	#1
Twoblindsheep [COTW 1/6/14] Drives: 2017 1LE Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Scott AFB/STL Posts: 2,004	thinking about going with Flex Fuel E85 so guys im thinking about getting flex fuel E85 on my car. I was wondering if you guys can help me out with where I would start looking on kits and what I would need to make this work. current mod is ERL 416ci, LT, CAM, Heads, NW102 TB with ported FAST intake.

11-21-2016, 02:23 PM	#4
G701LE Drives: 2010 2SS/RS L99 IBM silver stipes Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: K.C. Kansas Posts: 1,329 View My Garage	__________________ 2010 Imperial Blue w/ Silver stripes 2SS/RS L99 Mods = Not enough....

11-21-2016, 02:36 PM	#5
ZL1 Lingenfelter Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Auburn, IN Posts: 152 View My Garage	You will need larger injectors as e85 uses 30% more fuel than pump gas - and I happen to be selling mine. 950cc e85 injectors from Deatchwerks. Less than 1000 miles on em. Paid $700 willing to sell for $500. Let me know if youre interested. __________________ 2013 Coupe M6

11-21-2016, 07:41 PM	#8
camrytt Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 592	I've seen so many back and forth things on e85, about whether injectors/fuel pump/etc upgrades are necessary or not. __________________ Current: 2017 ZL1 A10 previous: 2019 1SS A10 previous: '14 L99, CAI intake, vmax ported tb, e85 kit, stage 2 cnc heads, speed engineering long tubes, custom high flows, resonated x pipe, muffler delete, qtp cut outs, gpi ss3 vvt Cam, zl1 pump and injectors, fti triple disc, mayhem motorsports trans cooler and tune, ngk spark plugs +red msd wires, 3.91 gears. Past: '12 LFX, full bolt ons + E85, 302hp/267tq

11-21-2016, 07:53 PM	#9
ZL1 Lingenfelter Drives: 2013 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Auburn, IN Posts: 152 View My Garage	it all depends on what your running and the power your making now, because you're clearly not stock? What size are your current injectors, and what duty cycle are they running? You want your injectors to max out around 80% of their capacity on the dyno to be safe at WOT. Then figure 30% for moving up to e85 - and probably leave room for future add ons. Same is true with the pump situation. Not sure of the flow rate of the stock SS pump - vs a ZL1, but I know at 700whp with a ZL1 and a KB BAP, I am maxed out and start to lose pressure above 6000rpm. If you want to upgrade the pump - look into the CTSV pump - and the Deatchwerks 300 replacement pumps. They're a direct swap for the CTSV units, and flow more than the ZL1 stocker. I use stock ZL1 lines and rails- but not sure if they're diff than yours. The sensor you can pick up online - Continental e85 sensor for impalas will do the trick for about $100. Displays temp and alch %. But you want it away from heat ideally. You really want to pick a tuner - and pick their brain as well. Here are my 90lb / 950 cc injectors http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=474245 I also have my stock ZL1 injectors I'd sell as well. Hope this helps. __________________ 2013 Coupe M6

11-21-2016, 02:00 PM	#2
Bildo Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 1,677	To run NA? I am putting together my ERL 427 going E-85 Several site sponsors have the flex fuel sensor kits, I am pretty sure I got mine through Jannety. Need the sensor, lines, injectors, and possibly a pump (I just did the squash dual 450s on a hobbs) but my setup is for FI.

11-21-2016, 03:27 PM	#6
xXSicSicSicXx Drives: 14 1LE Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: 'merica Posts: 261	fuel pump, rails, injectors, lines, sensor. the pumps and injectors are the pricey parts

11-21-2016, 08:12 PM	#10
pir4te Moonshiner Drives: Holden SS-V L77 flex fuel Join Date: May 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 166	thinking about going with Flex Fuel E85 I wouldn't put single cone injectors meant for a supercharger on an NA setup. Not the same spray pattern or angle, and that will stuff the dynamics which are already wacky on ethanol. Swap ZL1 pump keep LS7 injectors and up FRP a bit above 60 during high flow and crank. You up the flow base, lower the min pulse, and generally use up-to-date Flex Fuel tables from 2013 Holden SS. Works fine for me NA near 600 at the crank. __________________ Compression is King. Naturally as-pirated, all-motor, all alcohol.

11-21-2016, 08:16 PM	#11
camrytt Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 592	You guys seem to know a lot - what about for someone that doesn't plan on going above bolt ons? I won't be able to do much more than intake, tune, and headers. Ps sorry to jack the thread __________________ Current: 2017 ZL1 A10 previous: 2019 1SS A10 previous: '14 L99, CAI intake, vmax ported tb, e85 kit, stage 2 cnc heads, speed engineering long tubes, custom high flows, resonated x pipe, muffler delete, qtp cut outs, gpi ss3 vvt Cam, zl1 pump and injectors, fti triple disc, mayhem motorsports trans cooler and tune, ngk spark plugs +red msd wires, 3.91 gears. Past: '12 LFX, full bolt ons + E85, 302hp/267tq

11-23-2016, 09:27 AM	#13
Twoblindsheep [COTW 1/6/14] Drives: 2017 1LE Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Scott AFB/STL Posts: 2,004	yeah I had people told me that the ZL1 injectors was fine for E85.. so im glad that I asked about that. I do need to update the pump to ZL1 as I am still running on stock pump.. I don't know how much im putting down just yet because I car is still in the shop having the Land Speed Stage 3 heads installed and dynoed. as of right now without the heads im putting down 480rwhp/478tq. I should find out how much ill be putting down next week with heads.. but I also know I wanna run flex E85 down the road.. so im trying to start buying parts now or when I find a good deal on them. I know the pump and the injectors aren't gonna be cheap but I just wanna im not just getting the ZL1 injectors and ZL1 fuel pump

11-23-2016, 10:44 AM	#14
Bildo Drives: 2012 2SS/RS LS3 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Omaha, Nebraska Posts: 1,677	I personally wouldn't screw with E-85 unless I was doing FI or nitrous just spending money for not really too much benefit.