[ZL14ME]

I've been following the production numbers threads closely. I don't think our ZL1's or 1LE's will ever be ultra rare collectables but I think they will be desirable cars for purist.





I was digging around on the internet and found the Wikipedia post on the Camaro. As we all know, they quit making the cars for a short run and then brought it back, which is in no doubt due to sales volume. Take a look at the decline over the recent years. Makes me wonder what the future holds. Keep in mind this is all Camaros, not just ZL1's or otherwise. The 2002 numbers aren't far off from the 2018 US Sales numbers.



Food for thought.



2002 - 41,776
Camaro ceases production until 2009
2010 - 81,299
2011 - 88,249
2012 - 84,391
2013 - 80,567
2014 - 86,297
2015 - 77,502
2016 - 72,705
2017 - 67,940
2018 - 50,963

[URBAN LEGEND]

Doesn’t matter. Lots of options out there right now. All will be fine.

[Blast2hell]

Originally Posted by ZL14ME

2002 - 41,776
Camaro ceases production until 2009
2010 - 81,299
2011 - 88,249
2012 - 84,391
2013 - 80,567
2014 - 86,297
2015 - 77,502
2016 - 72,705
2017 - 67,940
2018 - 50,963

I wonder what 2002 was if you include Trans Ams...considering there were a lot of people buying 2002 fearing it was the last year.
Also, seeing that 2019 is kind of ugly unless you get a ZL1, probably more of a sales decline.

[Laststandard]

They didn't stop making them due to sales..

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=654

[Expunge]

My 2 cents..

The decline in my humble opinion is due to two factors

- Price of the Camaro versus the competition (Mustang, Challenger) with the exception of the ZL1 the Camaro is significantly higher than the equivalent competition of the same specs
- Lower gas prices which has created a booming demand for the Truck/SUV again.

If you see sales dip below 40K units I would be worried for the Camaro cancellation the following year.

As the sales stand now I am not confident there will be a 7th generation.

[17CamaroZL1]

Originally Posted by Expunge

My 2 cents..

The decline in my humble opinion is due to two factors

- Price of the Camaro versus the competition (Mustang, Challenger) with the exception of the ZL1 the Camaro is significantly higher than the equivalent competition of the same specs
- Lower gas prices which has created a booming demand for the Truck/SUV again.

If you see sales dip below 40K units I would be worried for the Camaro cancellation the following year.

As the sales stand now I am not confident there will be a 7th generation.

From every comparison I've seen, the Camaro is actually a touch less expensive if the Mustang is equipped with equal luxuries. Camaro SS for instance comes standard with many things that must be added as an option on the Mustang GT, and if you add those, the Mustang has a slightly higher price. If you go on up to the ZL1, then the Camaro will likely be quite a bit less than the GT500, since it has already been less than the GT350.

I've not shopped any Challengers to know how they stack up.

[Vtor_ZL1]

Lots of profit in the ZLx cars... not so much in lower trims.


Good part about platform sharing is that they share many of same principle locating points ( PLP) so that lines can be changed over between makes/models so your low volume model and be carried by higher volume cousin - hopefully that exists !

[Blast2hell]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

They didn't stop making them due to sales..

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=654

I think everyone knows it wasn't sales that made them go away in 2002. Well maybe I'm silly to assume it was common knowledge.

[ZL14ME]

Originally Posted by Blast2hell

I think everyone knows it wasn't sales that made them go away in 2002. Well maybe I'm silly to assume it was common knowledge.

Yea, well...maybe. I read the thread and it makes sense. We could probably agree that if sales were staggering and revenue on the Camaro lineup in 2002 was phenomenal, they would have done what they had to do right then and there.

From my experience...it’s always about the bottom line. Unless Chevy isn’t in the business of making money?

[datboi448]

citing wikipedia as a source.....

[BlaqWhole]

How do you know that 50,000 is a "low" number? You're basing your info off of 2002 sales figures. But look at how much these cars cost compared to how much they costed back in 02. GM is bringing in a lot more money per unit than they did back then. Plus you only have sales to go off of. You don't know how much it costs them to make each unit vs how much each unit is selling for. You don't know how much profit they're making off the car. All you have is one number which by itself tells you nothing. Example (and I use this often)...if I make $100K a year, and someone else makes $150K a year, then you can say that the other person MAKES more money than me. Now if I have $25K in expenses and he has $140K in expenses then you could say I HAVE more money than him. So just like income figures without knowing the expenses tells you nothing about a person's financial situation, so to, sales numbers without knowing production costs and profits tells you nothing about how good or bad a vehicle is doing. For all we know, GM might need to sell only 20K units to turn a good profit. We don't know that. And we don't know their fleet sales numbers either. So you're taking a blind guess and speculating.

ALso consider that the Challenger has sold horribly for years. Yet it is still alive and very well and has no indication that it will cease production. Again, their sales are terrible. That alone should tell you that there are many factors involved in whether or not a vehicle will cease production. The way I see it, the Camaro is doing just fine. Is it selling as good as the Mustang? No. But then again, Mustang sales has plummeted too. And see my example above about income. Ford sells the Mustangs for next to nothing...sometimes way below MSRP. The Camaro rarely sells lower than MSRP. So Ford is making little money off the Mustang per unit while GM more than likely is making much more per unit. Therefore the Camaro does not need to sell as many.

Again, this is all speculation.

[17CamaroZL1]

It's kind of funny you mention the Challenger sales are terrible and I just happened across a video last night claiming the Challenger passed the Camaro in sales for the first time ever. I don't know how legit that is, but they said the Mustang is #1, Challenger, and then Camaro last now.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How do you know that 50,000 is a "low" number? You're basing your info off of 2002 sales figures. But look at how much these cars cost compared to how much they costed back in 02. GM is bringing in a lot more money per unit than they did back then. Plus you only have sales to go off of. You don't know how much it costs them to make each unit vs how much each unit is selling for. You don't know how much profit they're making off the car. All you have is one number which by itself tells you nothing. Example (and I use this often)...if I make $100K a year, and someone else makes $150K a year, then you can say that the other person MAKES more money than me. Now if I have $25K in expenses and he has $140K in expenses then you could say I HAVE more money than him. So just like income figures without knowing the expenses tells you nothing about a person's financial situation, so to, sales numbers without knowing production costs and profits tells you nothing about how good or bad a vehicle is doing. For all we know, GM might need to sell only 20K units to turn a good profit. We don't know that. And we don't know their fleet sales numbers either. So you're taking a blind guess and speculating.

ALso consider that the Challenger has sold horribly for years. Yet it is still alive and very well and has no indication that it will cease production. Again, their sales are terrible. That alone should tell you that there are many factors involved in whether or not a vehicle will cease production. The way I see it, the Camaro is doing just fine. Is it selling as good as the Mustang? No. But then again, Mustang sales has plummeted too. And see my example above about income. Ford sells the Mustangs for next to nothing...sometimes way below MSRP. The Camaro rarely sells lower than MSRP. So Ford is making little money off the Mustang per unit while GM more than likely is making much more per unit. Therefore the Camaro does not need to sell as many.

Again, this is all speculation.

On one hand, sales are sales, and to the average public, sales figures in a segment comparison paints a certain perception... which I believe can affect people's buying decisions. If it is assumed by the average public a certain car is supposed to compete in sales numbers with another, the car that is selling less can present a negative, generalized view to someone who doesn't care to to do detailed research (i.e. Mustang is selling really well, so it must be the better car).

On the other hand, the average public doesn't know the details of a vehicle's business case, in what numbers are needed to make it successful (i.e. what the profit is targeted to be). Comparing sales numbers to other cars wont tell you this.

This is, in my opinion, Camaro's current problem: the car is executed in a way that it wants to be the top, value, high-performance coupe (regardless of any car; for me, as an enthusiast, this is why I bought the car). This is not what Camaro's typical competitors (Mustang and Challanger) are and are not executed as such (leaving special variants out of this). At the same time, it seems (this is the public perception part) Camaro wants to compete directly with it's typical competitors in sales. If Camaro is to continue, it needs to pick a path, make it known to the public what the intentions are, and stay to it.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Expunge

My 2 cents..

The decline in my humble opinion is due to two factors

- Price of the Camaro versus the competition (Mustang, Challenger) with the exception of the ZL1 the Camaro is significantly higher than the equivalent competition of the same specs
- Lower gas prices which has created a booming demand for the Truck/SUV again.

If you see sales dip below 40K units I would be worried for the Camaro cancellation the following year.

As the sales stand now I am not confident there will be a 7th generation.

I don't think pricing is the factor. The Camaro, Mustang and Challenger are all very close.

I think you're dead on with the gas pricing and the popularity of CUVs and trucks though.

I do think the lack of interior room is a problem for the 6th gen.