No Gas for New York

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

New York has Blackouts occasionally with the current grid the way it is...now add umpteen electric cars...can the infrastructure even handle this?

Unreal.

The part in bold is the key. The grid today is not what the grid in 2035 will be. Nobody is standing still.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

What happened to that synthetic fuel Porsche has been testing? Assuming that's a pipe dream?

Tail wagging elephant. First Porsche (Audi actually has done most of the heavy lifting on this over the years) would have to prove that it works and is profitable. Let’s assume that they are on to something (they aren’t). The next step is to convince Exxon, Aramco, Shell et al that this is in their best interest. Good luck with that.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

One minor detail left out that wasn't around in past 18 years as you show above.

And that is that manufacturers did not announce any plans in past years to permanently stop making vehicles that produce emissions.

Seems to me a different ball-game if the manufacturers time-line to stop production completely matches the so-called non-binding time line of prominent states to end emissions.

Not quite the same as the past 18 years of violating a non-binding target.

You, sir, are dangerously close to preempting my presentation.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 90503

One minor detail left out that wasn't around in past 18 years as you show above.

And that is that manufacturers did not announce any plans in past years to permanently stop making vehicles that produce emissions.

Seems to me a different ball-game if the manufacturers time-line to stop production completely matches the so-called non-binding time line of prominent states to end emissions.

Not quite the same as the past 18 years of violating a non-binding target.

I'm not so sure it'll end up that way. Even these executive orders are predicated on satisfactory resolution of the safety, technological feasibility, and cost-effectiveness hurdles.

Corporate plans are even more subject to change. I can't see GM or Ford choosing to go out of business if the hoped-for rates of replacement of ICE sales with EV sales ends up not happening. That's out of their hands for the same reasons.


Norm

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by ctrlz

Does anyone actually read these things?
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a4302

This "sets a goal." No penalties are mentioned. There is no clause stating "sales of such-and-such are hereby banned as of (insert date here)."

There's also this nice "out:"
IN IMPLEMENTING THE PROVISIONS OF THIS PARAGRAPH, THE DEPARTMENT SHALL ACT CONSISTENTLY WITH SAFETY, TECHNOLOGICAL FEASIBILITY AND COST-EFFECTIVENESS.

So, if gas is still cheap compared to alternate technologies...

Exactly!

It's good to have goals right... but reaching some goals is pretty lofty

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The part in bold is the key. The grid today is not what the grid in 2035 will be. Nobody is standing still.

The problem is, those blackouts didn't just come out recently. They have been around for a while. I'd be curious if the power grid has had significant improvements over the past 15 years.

You are exactly right, no one is standing still, but that applies to the demand side as well. On top of EVs, more and more other things will come into play to consume power, things like IoT and A/C. And oh yeah, don't forget the servers for streaming services and crypto mining! Those things consume enough power for people to start studying their effects on emissions. Streaming vs. physical media emissions and Bitcoin emissions were definitely grabbing some attention a few months back. Those things were negligible 15 years ago. The problem is if the supply can keep up with the demand.

And I have mentioned this before to other threads, but there is also the problem of distribution. How do you street park and charge at the same time, for example? I don't think those block heater plugs are exactly set up for charging an EV. Apartment buildings will also have fun with including a charging solution for every stall.

So yeah, 2035 is a bit optimistic, to put lightly.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Stop complaining. Electric cars are gonna be much faster anyway. They're gonna friggin destroy gasoline cars in performance. The Model S bone stock is already walking motorcycles from a dig and a roll. Some of them have a 0-60 less than 2 seconds and a 200 MPH top speed. So what's to complain about? The fast electric cars are gonna make the fastest gasoline cars look slow.

It's all dick-swinging when it comes to a certain point. How high is the speed limit in the city again? Oh yeah, 30 MPH.

I will admit, though, that EV's silence could help you to have a little fun on the streets without cops looking your way.

The sensation is what's really important. I don't ride bikes, but going 0-60 in 2 seconds in a car and in a bike is completely different from what every rider tells me.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by BlackKnight2SS18

Time to open my Prius tuning business...

I'm thinking of calling it: SoyBoi SpeedShop

Wouldn't mind it if this is the Prius I end up getting from you:

[SSJ455]

The seat-filler will be voted out next election and Republican will take her place and reverse her silly order.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by pauly1119

Perfect place to see all the homeless tents from. It’s like a huge camp ground, sounds real nice Clark.

Why do people act like the only place you can live in CA is downtown SF or LA?

Seriously?

Same with Seattle and WA, people act like the only place you can live in the entire state is downtown Seattle, for some crazy reason.

I wouldn't live in Florida in a million yeas due to the lack of mountains and the sports/outdoor activities that go along with them. If you like the ocean and swamps though, Florida might be for you. For sure, there's a ton of homeless people in the Florida downtowns though, so to bring that one up is just bizarre.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The part in bold is the key. The grid today is not what the grid in 2035 will be. Nobody is standing still.

The thing about EV charging too is that it occurs mostly during off-peak hours, which is actually better for the grid as far as using it efficiently, removing peaks/drops, etc. Peak hours are generally during the daytime and early evening, EVs charging all night probably doesn't even make a significant dent until some truly drastic numbers of EV% that probably won't be reached for 20 years. This is a big part of why EVs work right now, in many locations.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

New York has Blackouts occasionally with the current grid the way it is...

What's your source about these blackouts? I have lived in the tri-state area for 30 years and don't recall the last time there was one.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The thing about EV charging too is that it occurs mostly during off-peak hours, which is actually better for the grid as far as using it efficiently, removing peaks/drops, etc. Peak hours are generally during the daytime and early evening, EVs charging all night probably doesn't even make a significant dent until some truly drastic numbers of EV% that probably won't be reached for 20 years. This is a big part of why EVs work right now, in many locations.

What you said makes sense, but in engineering, you still need to consider the worst-case scenarios with non-insignificant probability. You probably don't have to consider the scenario where everyone owns an EV and all of them decide to charge at the same time, but I think 40~50% of them charging during peak hours should be considered. I am making the 40~50% number up, BTW. More data will determine where that number falls.

And again, distribution. Gotta convince the house owners and strata managements!

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

What you said makes sense, but in engineering, you still need to consider the worst-case scenarios with non-insignificant probability. You probably don't have to consider the scenario where everyone owns an EV and all of them decide to charge at the same time, but I think 40~50% of them charging during peak hours should be considered. I am making the 40~50% number up, BTW. More data will determine where that number falls.

And again, distribution. Gotta convince the house owners and strata managements!

JinX, the way things are going, building up plausible, compelling arguments and selling ideas to people, then listening to their voice is a less likely course. Given how powerful the available technology and how appealing extreme reactionary approaches ("the world is ending tomorrow unless we all do x together") are to those in power, I fear the "our way or the highway" style of management and governance will be attempted more and more frequently.

[12GoFast]

The thing that they are not telling you is that the Grid can not support the masses having all electric vehicles. California has roving blackouts now, what will they do when they push everyone into EVs.