The Future Of Muscle Cars (Electric Muscle Cars, etc.)

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

The end goal: We'll all have monthly subscriptions for self driving EVs.

I can't wait for the biometric scanner you need to use in order to get in the vehicle, then it locks the doors and auto drives you to the nearest police station for any infraction/warrant you may have.

[crysalis_01]

As of May of this year, Carl Widmann, Ford Performance Chief Engineer said that the V8 will stay in Mustang through S650 (gen7). That gen is scheduled to run from 2023-2031.
But I've also read that there is to be a full electric Mustang coupe/sedan to be launched in 2028 or 2029. So they'd run concurrent for a few years and if the electrics prove more popular, the ICE may end sooner than planned.

But, IF gm and Stellantis drop V8's in ~2024CY or 2025MY, you'd still have 6 more years of a new, optionally V8 powered, domestic, pony car.

[Silveradoss573]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

As of May of this year, Carl Widmann, Ford Performance Chief Engineer said that the V8 will stay in Mustang through S650 (gen7). That gen is scheduled to run from 2023-2031.
But I've also read that there is to be a full electric Mustang coupe/sedan to be launched in 2028 or 2029. So they'd run concurrent for a few years and if the electrics prove more popular, the ICE may end sooner than planned.

Buy, IF gm and Stellantis drop V8's in ~2024CY or 2025MY, you'd still have 6 more years of a new, optionally V8 powered, domestic, pony car.

I could see Ford sticking it to gm and dodge by still offering a V8 pony car after those 2 fold and go all electric.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

But, IF gm and Stellantis drop V8's in ~2024CY or 2025MY, you'd still have 6 more years of a new, optionally V8 powered, domestic, pony car.

I like this plan much better than what GM has reportedly planned. I think the only time i'd ever replace my Camaro with a Mustang would be if Ford was the only one with a V8.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Silveradoss573

I could see Ford sticking it to gm and dodge by still offering a V8 pony car after those 2 fold and go all electric.

I think Mustang and Corvette will be the last two domestic V8 cars left standing. GM has said they plan to be Zero Emissions for passenger cars by 2035. Seeing as how C8 is an all new platform and the 5.5L is an all new engine platform, GM will likely run those all the way to the end.

The Dodge platforms are so old that I think Stellantis will wind them down soon. Makes no sense to pour any more money into them and bringing in another ICE platform like Giorgio just doesn't make sense when everyone else is investing only in new BEV platforms.

In any event, in case anyone wasn't sure whether Ford is really all in on this EV thing, remember that they have pledged $30B for transition to BEV. Here's how they're spending the first $7B of that.

DETROIT — Ford Motor Co., in what it says is the largest single manufacturing investment in its 118-year history, on Monday said it would spend $7 billion and create nearly 11,000 jobs to build electric vehicles and batteries in Tennessee and Kentucky.

The investment, meant to vault Ford among the leaders in EV output, will include a 3,600-acre "mega campus" northeast of Memphis called Blue Oval City that will include Ford's first new vehicle assembly plant in more than 50 years. The site — three times the size of the automaker's sprawling Rouge Complex in Michigan — will hire about 6,000 people to assemble next-generation electric F-Series pickups and include battery cell production and a supplier park, Ford said. It's expected to open in 2025.

South of Louisville, Ford will build a 1,500-acre battery park under its BlueOvalSK joint venture with battery supplier SK Innovation. The site will comprise two battery plants making advanced lithium ion batteries, with one opening in 2025 and the other in 2026. Ford said the Kentucky site will create 5,000 jobs.

SK Innovation is committing $4.4 billion on the projects, bringing the total investment to $11.4 billion, Ford said. Ford formed a partnership with SK Innovation in May after CEO Jim Farley reversed plans by his predecessor to buy batteries from outside suppliers, choosing to instead produce them in-house.

Ford said the two campuses will have annual battery production capacity of 129 gigawatt hours, which is enough to power 1 million EVs. The Tennessee battery plant will be dedicated to the next-generation F-Series, while the twin plants in Kentucky will make batteries for numerous Ford and Lincoln vehicles, the company said.

"This is a transformative moment where Ford will lead America's transition to electric vehicles and usher in a new era of clean, carbon-neutral manufacturing," Ford Executive Chair Bill Ford said in a statement. "With this investment and a spirit of innovation, we can achieve goals once thought mutually exclusive – protect our planet, build great electric vehicles Americans will love and contribute to our nation's prosperity."

[BlaqWhole]

Some of you guys are paranoid to the point that you might need some medication.

I do not remember anything in the definition stating that they need to be gas powered in order to qualify. So Muscle Cars will still be here...just much much faster. Our gas powered cars are already getting destroyed easily by some of the Teslas out there. Race one of them from a dig or from a roll and watch what happens. In short, you will get walked easily.

It's like I said before, Muscle Car guys in the 70s and 80s all but declared Muscle Cars as dead and made bold claims about how we'll never go fast because of Fuel Injection and yada yada and whatever other nonsense they could spout. And look what we have now. Fuel Inject cars are soo powerful and much better than that car'd junk. Who wants to go back to carbs? Nobody?? (Crickets).

When EV is the mainstream trust me, nobody will want to go back. No you won't need a subscription. Sure they might sell software updates to unleash more power but that is the same exact thing as going to a vendor for a Stage 4, Stage 27, Stage 553 package. You gotta pay. You want an 850 RWHP Camaro now, you're gonna pay a crap load of money. That will not change for those who will want a faster EV.

CHange is coming and it will be a million times better.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

But going fast with little to no sensory input is not nearly as much fun.

[90503]

So, a Tesla is a muscle car? (They look like pregnant Manatees)...

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

But going fast with little to no sensory input is not nearly as much fun.

Going fast is going fast. The sensory input will be when you feel the G forces from foing 0-60 in half the time it takes now. And from when you're taking the lunches of a bunch of hotshots in V8 gas powered cars. I don't care about "sensory input". I care about going fast.

Originally Posted by 90503

So, a Tesla is a muscle car? (They look like pregnant Manatees)...

Is that what I said? Did I say that Tesla's are Muscle Cars? Or did I say that there is nothing in the definition of "Muscle Car" that specifies that it has to be gas powered and that there will still be Muscle Cars? What did I say?

It doesn't matter what your opinion is on how they look. You won't stand a chance against them. And all the mods won't help you. So yea, I'll take a car that looks like a "pregnant Manatee" if it can easily beat everything else out there. And nobody is saying that they all will look like that anyway. There will be many different designs and some will look way better than what we have now. So let's stop with the nonsense.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Going fast is going fast. The sensory input will be when you feel the G forces from foing 0-60 in half the time it takes now. And from when you're taking the lunches of a bunch of hotshots in V8 gas powered cars. I don't care about "sensory input". I care about going fast.


Is that what I said? Did I say that Tesla's are Muscle Cars? Or did I say that there is nothing in the definition of "Muscle Car" that specifies that it has to be gas powered and that there will still be Muscle Cars? What did I say?

It doesn't matter what your opinion is on how they look. You won't stand a chance against them. And all the mods won't help you. So yea, I'll take a car that looks like a "pregnant Manatee" if it can easily beat everything else out there. And nobody is saying that they all will look like that anyway. There will be many different designs and some will look way better than what we have now. So let's stop with the nonsense.

For me, going fast(er) was no longer the number one priority once low 12s was achieved in the base level. The visceral experience is. To me, the NA SS 1LE M6 is the ultimate.

Maybe a 4,900 lb, EV performance sedan will actually be a joy. I'm certain it will be better than the late 70s and 80s. It won't be a Muscle Car.

[lbls1]

Let me see if I can fill in some areas I think are being missed in this thread. The whole point of the discussion is that many of the good things about a muscle car and gas powered v8s will be gone if EV technology takes over. Things such as the sound of a v8 thru a real exhaust system, the thrill of taking a v8 to WOT and hearing that amazing sound come from the car. (for some) The smell of spent fuel from the exhaust, and perhaps a significant point, the pride that a local domestic car maker can create such a great automobile. What will end up happening is that whatever is left of gas powered cars may come from overseas manufacturers at very high prices. Where is the pride in this?? Where is the pride of knowing that foreign mfrs. are making most cars available in the US?????

Edit: I am not saying that one should ignore technology and advancement. What I am saying is that one needs to consider the good things that current cars have to offer, and to fully be aware that some of those features will be lost with a change in technology and manufacturing. Advancement comes from a need, and done right it can be a good thing. One needs to be aware of all the factors involved in advancement of technology, good and bad.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by lbls1

Let me see if I can fill in some areas I think are being missed in this thread. The whole point of the discussion is that many of the good things about a muscle car and gas powered v8s will be gone if EV technology takes over. Things such as the sound of a v8 thru a real exhaust system, the thrill of taking a v8 to WOT and hearing that amazing sound come from the car. (for some) The smell of spent fuel from the exhaust, and perhaps a significant point, the pride that a local domestic car maker can create such a great automobile. What will end up happening is that whatever is left of gas powered cars may come from overseas manufacturers at very high prices. Where is the pride in this?? Where is the pride of knowing that foreign mfrs. are making most cars available in the US?????

Edit: I am not saying that one should ignore technology and advancement. What I am saying is that one needs to consider the good things that current cars have to offer, and to fully be aware that some of those features will be lost with a change in technology and manufacturing. Advancement comes from a need, and done right it can be a good thing. One needs to be aware of all the factors involved in advancement of technology, good and bad.

But that's also my point. That people are soo stuck in their ways and unwilling to change that they don't even consider the fact that they might like the EV versions better. Which is why I brought up the old school guys from the 70s and 80s who swore that fuel injection was the end of performance. They didn't even give it a chance. They just right off the bat started spouting nonsense as if it was fact and now decades later we all see how stupid that was.

It's the same thing now. I mean, come on man...the smell of spent fuel from the exhaust? That's what got us here in the first place. Those noxious harmful fumes. Sure you and like 3 other people might like it. But what happens when you and those who like it go revving up and down your block and exposing the entire neighborhood to your loud exhausts and exhaust fumes? On top of that, how do you know you'll even think twice about exhausts and fumes once you're in a car that is much faster than you can even hope to go right now? I'll be almost willing to bet you anything that once you feel how fast those cars will be you won't even think about exhausts and fumes. No worrying about noise violations or pissing off your neighbors or cops pulling you over or getting tickets. No worrying about DMV inspections and cats and emission stuff. None of that sounds bad to me. In fact our cars will seem like dinosaurs and will be slow and heavy by comparison. I doubt any of the hardcore Muscle Car guys will actually miss these gas powered engines when the time comes.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But that's also my point. That people are soo stuck in their ways and unwilling to change that they don't even consider the fact that they might like the EV versions better. Which is why I brought up the old school guys from the 70s and 80s who swore that fuel injection was the end of performance. They didn't even give it a chance. They just right off the bat started spouting nonsense as if it was fact and now decades later we all see how stupid that was.

It's the same thing now. I mean, come on man...the smell of spent fuel from the exhaust? That's what got us here in the first place. Those noxious harmful fumes. Sure you and like 3 other people might like it. But what happens when you and those who like it go revving up and down your block and exposing the entire neighborhood to your loud exhausts and exhaust fumes? On top of that, how do you know you'll even think twice about exhausts and fumes once you're in a car that is much faster than you can even hope to go right now? I'll be almost willing to bet you anything that once you feel how fast those cars will be you won't even think about exhausts and fumes. No worrying about noise violations or pissing off your neighbors or cops pulling you over or getting tickets. No worrying about DMV inspections and cats and emission stuff. None of that sounds bad to me. In fact our cars will seem like dinosaurs and will be slow and heavy by comparison. I doubt any of the hardcore Muscle Car guys will actually miss these gas powered engines when the time comes.

These cars will be sterile. No sound. No manual. No driving (eventually). They'll be boring commodities. I realize there will be exceptions but by and large we are headed there. That said, most of us realize there are advantages. If you're willing to admit it, disadvantages. This is not twitter. We can meet in the middle?

[detamble13]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In fact our cars will seem like dinosaurs and will be slow and heavy by comparison. I doubt any of the hardcore Muscle Car guys will actually miss these gas powered engines when the time comes.

Slow maybe but from what I've read an electric car with equivalent power is always heavier. Now anyways.

My concern is in affordable performance. The high performance versions of the EV's currently available are expensive and while I do think costs will come down I'm not sure by how much. More importantly are the early adopters of EV tech creating a market for the next generation of muscle cars? It seems most have made the switch for environmental reasons or as a status symbol. I didn't buy a V8 Camaro because it pollutes more in the same way people don't buy a cell phone because they're an advocate for child labour in China.

If all electric is the future I hope there is still room for a two door, sporty car that is affordable. But man I'll miss the manual transmission.