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Old 08-21-2021, 02:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SFV1LE View Post
Not a great comparison in my opinion, a sports car isn’t something that sits on your wrist and only gets looked at. I have driven Ferraris and Lamborghinis on track and they are amazing, and up until the release of cars like the 991 GT3RS, 650S, ZLE, ZR1, etc you did have to buy a Ferrari or Lambo get track performance like the 458 Italia or Huracan.

My point is I wouldn’t buy a 765LT or 488 Pista for prestige or presence (not sure what you mean by presence), I’d buy it because it’s faster around a track and more engaging.

The new gen of electric cars coming over the next 5-10 years will deliver mind bending acceleration, grip and lap times that will eclipse what a Pista or 765 can do today. All these brands are switching to electric or hybrid or they will lose their value prop due to the performance gap—Ferrari, Lambo, Bugatti, Porsche etc already doing this. I love my ZLE but this is a fact.

It doesn’t really matter to me, I can’t afford a 765 and I wont be able to afford a Tesla Roadster. But I will probably get a chance to drive one on track some day.
It is a great comparison, actually. I think a lot of those expensive Rolex watches probably don't get worn all that much. They mostly sit in a display case, especially when we are talking about a watch collector.

You are assuming that most Ferrari or Lambo owners are enthusiasts or track rats. They aren't. While I would bring one to the track, there will be some reservation on how hard I push it, and I would think most Ferrari/Lambo owners would only track for fun instead of being in it to win it. If you screw up, that gets much more expensive than if you screw up in a Camaro. Realize that you are in the very minority of the crowd that buys a supercar. Heck, most people who buy a Camaro never track them.

What matters more to most supercar buyers is the brand. As for presence, that's an easy one. That Ferrari flat-plane crank V8 scream or Lambo V12 roar of anger has infinitely more presence and character than electric motor whine. It basically just goes back to why most here wouldn't consider a performance EV: sure, it's faster, but can it give you the same sensation of being alive? So it boils down to if you are "in it to win it" or you want more raw sensation and engagement. Not saying the former isn't fun, but I think the latter matters to a lot of people as well.

Yeah, EV would probably be better at dick-swinging rights but again, since most buyers don't hit the track, fast enough is fast enough on a public road. I don't think most Tesla Roadsters will also end up as track frequents, either.

And again, we are talking about a person who has a history of creating vaporware. Hard to cheer for SpaceX when you remember that Hyperloop is a thing, and how Tesla Semi physically just cannot work with some back-of-envolope calculations.

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Sure, but how many ecb’s have experience problems and had to be recalled or broke for whatever reason. I’m not a fan boy, but I’ve been to a track where everyone is getting spanked by a model S run after run after run, (including yours truly) with the losers saying stupid shit like he’s gonna over heat or he’s gonna run out of power, but then he drives home like everyone else. It’s the haters that are gonna hate I guess. Nothing to do about that except keep spanking that ass and breaking records.
I would be curious as to how much work the stability system is doing on a Model S.

One time, I went to an open tracking day, and there was a ZL1 there that was getting okay times in advanced group... Except the guy wasn't driving all that well. My friend who has a lot of track experience who was watching said his linework is pretty bad and he was probably mostly relying on the electronic stability system to get some okay times. I also know for a fact that he likes to treat the gas pedal like an on-off switch rather than gradually engage it.

Some people have said here that EV stability system could be more advanced, so if the driver is already good, it could be a great aid to that skill.
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:29 AM   #16
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That Roadster was announced in 2017 with availability scheduled for 2019 or early 2020.

The down payment to reserve one is $5k immediately and $45k in 10 days. I don't know how many reservations they got, but they have been sitting on people's $50k deposits for well over three, nearly four years. The company had never posted a profitable quarter until just about now.

Anyone else trying to pull a stunt like this would likely be in jail. Reality distortion field projectors, however, somehow get a break and a horde of fanatical supporters for basically any move.

This is not to say Elon Musk isn't a gifted visionary and hasn't achieved anything, that'd be far from the truth (that is never black or white), but come on. I'll check out the Roadster once it actually exists.
Fun fact… If those early reserves had bought Tesla stock instead, their $50k would be worth about $525k based on this morning’s opening price. They basically could’ve gotten their Roadster for free.
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:45 AM   #17
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Delayed to 2023.


As per Tesla tradition.
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Old 09-02-2021, 11:49 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65 View Post
Delayed to 2023.


As per Tesla tradition.
Gotta love it.

Tesla: "Hey look at this cool car/truck/thingy!!!! Pretty awesome isn't it!! You want it!!?? Just put your deposit down now!!

...


Availability?

...

Maybe in about 5 years"
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SFV1LE View Post
If the specs on this thing are right, it makes it hard to justify $300-400K for a Ferrari or McLaren that will vanish in your rearview. Even at 4000 lbs, with AWD and huge slicks I'm guessing it will handle well enough to use the acceleration advantage to dominate on a road course.
No matter how hard people try to make even lap times the only thing of value, it just flat-out cannot replace the satisfaction a driver can get from driving a car that isn't so traction-controlled, stability controlled, and automated that his part in it all has been minimized.

Bragging rights are for the benefit of those who bask in the limelight of the performances other people can extract from their cars. Driver satisfaction is internal to the driver extracting those performances - at whatever level he and his car can produce. But I guess that there are drivers who can't see the satisfaction side through the bragging . . .


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Old 09-02-2021, 12:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
No matter how hard people try to make even lap times the only thing of value, it just flat-out cannot replace the satisfaction a driver can get from driving a car that isn't so traction-controlled, stability controlled, and automated that his part in it all has been minimized.

Bragging rights are for the benefit of those who bask in the limelight of the performances other people can extract from their cars. Driver satisfaction is internal to the driver extracting those performances - at whatever level he and his car can produce. But I guess that there are drivers who can't see the satisfaction side through the bragging . . .


Norm
Spot on Norm.
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Old 09-02-2021, 02:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Gotta love it.

Tesla: "Hey look at this cool car/truck/thingy!!!! Pretty awesome isn't it!! You want it!!?? Just put your deposit down now!!

...


Availability?

...

Maybe in about 5 years"

It's no secret I'm not a Tesla fan, and I'm willing to eat crow on saying they would go out of business a year or so ago, but take away the Elon Musk magic facade and anyone with half a brain would think this is all a massive scam. The Wikipedia pages for the individual Tesla products are hilarious to read from announcement date and collection of preorder deposits to projected production date to delay to delay to delay.


Like someone earlier pointed out, we're coming up on 4 years since the Roadster was announced. It'll be 6, likely 7 years by the time a saleable unit is produced. In less time GM and Ford both will have gone from initial development to production of their own EVs.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:56 AM   #22
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The semi-conductor shortage and covid are providing plausible cover for just about any excuse used these days for just about anything...

A 250K car delayed another year? The Horror!!...lol. I won't lose any sleep over it...lol
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