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Old 12-22-2016, 06:11 PM   #15
ron scubadiver
 
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Cadillac's have a real back seat.
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Old 12-23-2016, 07:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Because shockingly, price and performance are not the only two metrics that people buy cars on. The Cadillacs are simply nicer cars than the Camaro is. Niceness costs extra.
Yet I would cross shop the living S#&t out of them. I'm sure its nice and fluffy in the Cadillac Alpha cars, but dollar to car ratio makes it VERY hard not to look at the Camaro offerings.
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we're certainly looking at it -- but right now, the emphasis MUST be on getting the Camaro V6 and SS out -- and having it exceed your expectations....

Once that's done....................

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Old 12-23-2016, 09:21 AM   #17
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I think if they used that concept and blended the lt4 with a more upscale interior it could sell. If it were me I'd make it AWD so it also appeals to other buyers, not the exact Camaro/Cadillac/corvette guys. It would make a great straight line car. You can price it between the ZL1 and CTS-V.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by tbrennyZL1 View Post
I think if they used that concept and blended the lt4 with a more upscale interior it could sell. If it were me I'd make it AWD so it also appeals to other buyers, not the exact Camaro/Cadillac/corvette guys. It would make a great straight line car. You can price it between the ZL1 and CTS-V.
I like your idea.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:56 AM   #19
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I will say that there is a big difference in the quality and workmanship between the Chevrolet and Cadillac divisions. My S.O. pick up a new Caddy XT5 a month after I picked up my 2SS and hers is by far the higher quality vehicle. Paint, fit, materials are all much better. Cadillac has definitely stepped up their game.

We have two friends that have new BMWs and we all agree that her Caddy is the nicest. I was surprised on how poor the paint quality was on both BMWs.

A Buick ZL1? Maybe if the quality was along the lines of the new Cadillac.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrennyZL1 View Post
I think if they used that concept and blended the lt4 with a more upscale interior it could sell. If it were me I'd make it AWD so it also appeals to other buyers, not the exact Camaro/Cadillac/corvette guys. It would make a great straight line car. You can price it between the ZL1 and CTS-V.
Now that is a great idea, the AWD upscale LT4. I have to keep another car to drive in bad weather because in the mid-south we don't have a lot of resources to plow or salt roads, so basically when it snows you either have to drive on the packed snow until it melts or stay home. Camaro just does not do real well in packed snow and freezing rain on the stock tires. I could buy another set of tires but when you get maybe 3 snow falls a year what's the point?

Plus on real roads that have miscellaneous debris on them, AWD is a real plus with a lot of power, Jaguar and Mercedes seem to be figuring that out.
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Old 12-23-2016, 10:12 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
Now that is a great idea, the AWD upscale LT4. I have to keep another car to drive in bad weather because in the mid-south we don't have a lot of resources to plow or salt roads, so basically when it snows you either have to drive on the packed snow until it melts or stay home. Camaro just does not do real well in packed snow and freezing rain on the stock tires. I could buy another set of tires but when you get maybe 3 snow falls a year what's the point?

Plus on real roads that have miscellaneous debris on them, AWD is a real plus with a lot of power, Jaguar and Mercedes seem to be figuring that out.
Thanks, you listening GM!! Same thing in PNW. Lots of 50 degree days and nice but roads don't warm up enough for high horsepower RWD cars. Like you said they could attract a bunch of other buyers from Mercedes, Audi, Lexus etc.
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Old 12-23-2016, 12:16 PM   #22
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Power is relative to how far you mash the pedal. Northern climates tend to be colder and have more icy road conditions. GM makes vehicles for all of these climate variations. Dress accordingly.
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPODFAN11 View Post
The ZL1 honestly, in my opinion, near renders the CTS-V useless, just like the Camaro V6 and SS near render the ATS/ATS-V coupe useless. Why spend the $$$? The better performing cars are cheaper!
You spend the extra money because a car is more than performance per dollar calculation. I love the Camaro but it simply won't do with 2 kids under the age of two. Not to mention the luxury car vs rental car interior (I'm kidding - don't take offense)

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Originally Posted by MuhThugga View Post
The ATS and ATS-V have been overpriced from the start, just as the rest of Cadillac's fleet.
Overpriced compared to what? The ATS-V is a bargain relative to its competition.
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/merce...-s-comparison/

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Originally Posted by MuhThugga View Post
Which is why Cadillac has abysmal sales figures.
Please define abysmal? Clearly you haven't seen BMW's numbers YTD.
- Audi up 2.9%
- BMW down 10%
- Cadillac down 3.8%
- Mercedes-Benz down 6%

Really Audi is the only full-line luxury brand posting growth thanks to a strong and cheap crossover lineup.

Cadillac globally, sales are up over 20% thanks largely to China.

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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Furthermore, since Camaro sales aren't doing that well, and Cadillac ATS & CTS sales aren't doing that well ... why in the world would GM create a Buick that would mostly just steal sales from its siblings?
Generally speaking NO cars are doing that well. The pony car segment is DOWN 10% YTD. Sports cars are DOWN 6% YTD and the premium sports car segment is DOWN 13%

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Originally Posted by KLR ZL1 View Post
Remember that Buick is China's Cadillac and that is why it never got dismantled like Pontiac.
No, Cadirack is China's Cadirack!



In all seriousness, Cadillac is on pace in China to eclipse American sales in the next year or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPODFAN11 View Post
Yet I would cross shop the living S#&t out of them. I'm sure its nice and fluffy in the Cadillac Alpha cars, but dollar to car ratio makes it VERY hard not to look at the Camaro offerings.
Performance per dollar calculations will never favor luxury brands. If you don't need/care about luxury then the Camaro is great bang-for-the-buck. Just keep in mind some of us buy those "nice and fluffy" luxury performance cars as second cars to fulfill broader daily needs.
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Old 12-23-2016, 02:25 PM   #24
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OOOOR is GM doing this "Exactly the way they planned". Your (my) kick @$$ chassis started in the ATS. Tested with a few combo's on the lower volume cars. Once it is perfected you roll it out into the masses for more affordable...ZL1.
I personally don't think for a second GM rolls out a car like the CTS-V expecting it to be a large volume seller and take over market share. But they are giving the guys who are willing to spend the $$ the chance to enjoy it, a couple years ahead of everyone else.
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:25 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MEDISIN View Post

Really Audi is the only full-line luxury brand posting growth thanks to a strong and cheap crossover lineup.
And nearly all of the Audi vehicles are AWD...... People enjoy power if it is usable.
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:40 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jessrayo View Post
And nearly all of the Audi vehicles are AWD...... People enjoy power if it is usable.
Well not nearly all, ALL Cadillac line has AWD available. Of course they offer the rwd / fwd on XT5 as well. Excluding the V-cars.
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by TimsZ28 View Post
Well not nearly all, ALL Cadillac line has AWD available. Of course they offer the rwd / fwd on XT5 as well. Excluding the V-cars.
It is funny, first you say all the Cadilac line has AWD available.... then at the end you say excluding the V-cars. Hmm... since I only look at Cadillac V-series models....none of them have AWD. Audi has it pretty much available on every model including S and RS models.
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Old 12-23-2016, 05:52 PM   #28
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No never
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